A Messerschmitt 109 for two

  • 79 posts
  • Last reply 1 month, 3 weeks ago
  • Bf109, Bf109G-12, CS-199, CS-99, HA1110-K1L, HA1112-M4L, Messerschmitt, UMe 109
Viewing 1 - 15 of 79 posts
  • Erik Gjørup said 1 year, 5 months ago:

    Yet another 109 project

    This time it is a project that has been waiting to get underway for quite a long time

    I have been trying to gather info on the two-seat 109’s for some time, and really got another push with the arrival of a book on the type in Yugoslav service. In that book it is described how they received 9 two-seaters after the war.

    To begin with, a few books have been gathered;

    And as can be seen I also have a few conversion/AM products ready.

    What version will it be then?

    There are the german G-12 that is hard to bypass, and a kit is actually available from AMG. It is based on a UM kit with a resin cockpit. Actually not the best kit around, and the clear resin parts in my box are not at all clear. It is however a good place to start.

    Now, there has also been a Buchon two-seater as is known to most enthusiasts, but that one will have to wait as there are at present no front-end for the M1L variant in 1/48, though two HA1110-K1L’s were made into two-seaters. (SBS-model has a great resin nose in 1/32) The two-seater with the Merlin was the HA1112-M4L.

    Avia also made a two-seater, the Avia CS-99, and that is a lot easier to make as it is essentially a G-10, and the two-seat version seems to be a 109G-12. The next version was the C-199, developed into a two-seater, the CS-199, and Falcon has kindly supplied a clear-Vax vacuum canopy for that version. They suggest the use of a hobbycraft C-199 for that conversion, but that is a kit I still have to come across. Lets see if eduard will follow their 109 series up with a C-199. .

    The Yugoslavian story is a long one, suffice it to say that in 1946 there were negotiations that resulted in an agreement that Yugoslavia offered to store the Bulgarian 109’s in 1947. In 1948 Yugoslavia then bought 91 airworthy 109G’s and spares, and contracted Bulgaria to convert 12 of these into two-seaters. It seems likely that the two-seaters were converted in Yugoslavia, the first being W.NR.165104 that may have been converted before arriving?
    The Yugoslavian two-seaters were named UMe 109 in Yugoslav service, derived from the Russian “Uchobni” meaning Trainer, and all 109’s were Me 109, Bf never being used.

    What now?

    Well – this is where you get into the picture! I know a work-in-progress thread is not entirely the right way to ask for information, but nonetheless, if you have any comments or info or pictures please feel free to share – any and all is welcome to add to the knowledge!

    The UMe 109 seems to be the easiest to make, apart from the lack of decals as the sparesbox is full of Erla-hoods as used in the backseat, and the rest is more or less standard G-model with only the middle window to be scratchbuilt..

    So far the following has been used;

    Messerschmitt Bf 109, The Yugoslav story, volume II, Jeroplan Books.
    The Messerschmitt Bf 109, Late Series, Valiant Wings
    The Messerschmitt Bf 109, A Comprehensive Guide, SAM Publications
    Flugzeug Classic Extra, Messerschmitt Bf 109 Teil 2+3, GeraMond (also available as a book)

    Falcon Clear-Vax Canopies, set no 50, Messerschmitt Bf 109 special
    AMG 48702, Messerschmitt Bf 109G12
    Falcon Triple Conversion Kit X, FW190S-8/Bf109G-12/Bf109G-14

    Please feel free to add to this thread!

    next up hopefully some building will commence?

  • Greg Kittinger said 1 year, 5 months ago:

    Fascinating work on all these 109’s – this one is especially interesting! I wish I could progress as fast on my Phantom collection builds as you are on the 109’s. No tips – just some encouragement! Looking forward to seeing this one progress.

  • George R Blair Jr said 1 year, 4 months ago:

    Very timely post, Erik. I just ordered a 1/72 two-seat G-12 from Hannant’s. It is from AZ Models, and my experience with AZ gives me concern about this kit, but it is too cool to pass up. The info on the box says that the plastic itself is from “HGT”, which I know absolutely nothing about. Although your build will be different than mine, you will give me some great insight on markings and camouflage.

  • Erik Gjørup said 1 year, 4 months ago:

    @gkittinger, dont be fooled – I have so many going right now that it seems like I am reluctant to get any finished. Some good therapy may resolve that issue 🙂

    @gblair – looking forward to have you racing along for the finishing line 🙂 The finishes are whatever you decide as almost all of them are field-modifications, or modified old warriors that did not even get a strip of paint before/during conversion, some even having their old marks in situ with the new codes painted on top of them – there is a lot of fun to be had here!

  • Erik Gjørup said 1 year, 4 months ago:

    The options so far

    here you have a sneekpeek on the available parts so far

    First off, the Falcon 109 set has a lot of really nice vaccumformed canopies

    Sadly they are for a lot of kits that are a bit old – and the two-seat is not to be found in my stash. . . Will have to figure out how to get it done.

    Then there is the Falcon Triple Conversion Kit – that one comes with a vac-formed fuselage that can be used for Revell G-10 wings – one of these are in the stash.

    Clear parts are – clear!

    AMG is up next. There is a lot of resin and a complete UM kit.

    Clear parts are anything but clear – any ideas?

    The cockpit interior is not the best around, but at least it comes with sidewalls, and the rear cockpit has nice details – very nice and made from the only picture of a rear cockpit that I know of. Unfortunately that picture does not have the footplate installed, and if depicting an operational plane that has to be installed.

    Last but not least, I have a lot of eduard 109’s in my stash, including overtree kits that has no decals, manuals or anything – just the plain grey sprue. I also have some resin cockpits that I may use – they have splendid detail and correct pedalarms.

    The resin sidewalls may have to give up their throttle etc

    And the exterior has to be reworked too – the fuelfiller needs to be moved aft one frame. I have some AM parts that will do the job nicely.

    And with these options in hand, any and all suggestions on the one to go with is open for you to tell me – let me know what is your preferred option!

    next up? – time will tell. . .

  • George R Blair Jr said 1 year, 4 months ago:

    This one is going to be a lot of work, Erik. As far as the canopy goes, I have had some luck sanding it with progressively finer sanding stick or sandpaper, then restore the shine by dipping in Future Floor Polish. Future Floor Polish is called something else now, and is called something else in other countries. I haven’t bothered to figure out it’s new name because I still have a bottle of the original. This process only works if the problem is on the surface of the plastic. I have seen canopies that were made with plastic that has impurities that go all the way through. In this case, it will probably never be completely clear. Dipping the canopy in Future may help in any case. Good luck. Looking forward to seeing how you fix this problem. If this wasn’t such an unusual version of 109 it would be a lot easier to solve.

  • Louis Gardner said 1 year, 4 months ago:

    This is another build I’ll be watching !!! As far as the canopy is concerned, I think that George is right on the money with his comments.

    I have never done any vacuum forming, but would it be possible to use the original part you are talking about as a master and pull a new canopy from it ??? My main concern would be the odd angles on the second seat. If it didn’t work out as a single part, maybe you could flip the canopy on it’s side and pull two more vacuum formed canopies ………….. a Right side and then a Left ???

    Then join all three parts together. You might have to use a very fine wire on the inside to hold the sides in alignment.

    Just me rambling on……………….. This is a very neat build you have started.

  • Erik Gjørup said 1 year, 4 months ago:

    Thanks for the comments and info – appreciated! Now, it is the plan to start all three eventually under this topic, but time will tell as usual

  • Erik Gjørup said 1 year, 4 months ago:

    First off, eduard kit

    To get things underway I decided to start with the eduard kit as a base for the first to be converted

    Before I continue, I have just received a magazine from START – the latest in their “Luftwaffe im Focus” series – number 29. In issue 29 there is a couple of pictures of a 109 G-12 in operational use! It was pressed into service as an observation platform at the eastern front. The plane pictured has a standard armoured glass plate behind the pilot, and that will have to be a future build!

    I still haven’t checked if the falcon canopy will fit the eduard kit – that will have to be future fun for now!

    First off I checked if the interior would fit. With the standard plastic cockpit moved backwards it created a 3 mm gap in the lower fuselage.

    With that in mind, it was time to get the resin out.

    The resin cockpit from eduard is so cool, and I decided to use it in the rear cockpit. The jury is still out regarding the use of standard plastic or resin in the front office.

    The fuselage sides were thinned with a dremel tool, the resin in a bath and wet abrasive paper.

    Test fitting all the time, as this is actually my first attempt at major conversion of a kit.

    With the build of the first one commencing well, it may be a while before next post, as I am pressed for time the next 7 days.

    As for the “Luftwaffe im Focus” number 29, it is still not available on hannants or modelbau-koenig as I write this. I got mine at Haldværk, but if you live in Germany it is cheaper direct from START. (links should be available by clicking the names)

    Perhaps one of the other two kits get started next? – stay tuned

  • Erik Gjørup said 1 year, 4 months ago:

    Could not get the links to work – dunno why as I followed the instructions in the tutorials. If you want them to c+p into your browser they are here;


    happy hunting!

  • George R Blair Jr said 1 year, 4 months ago:

    This surgery looks painful, especially on an Eduard kit. It will be worth it in the end.

  • Erik Gjørup said 1 year, 4 months ago:

    Fetteling along

    Still not completely decided wich way to go with this one

    It tends to lean towards a German machine though. Just a short update this time to show it is not a complete standstill at the “Halbe Messerschmitt werke”

    Just fiddled with the aft floor and backwall yesterday evening, and for now it fits, and the fun with guessing the layout of the interior commences.

    I saw that eduard has issued a 109 with the 200l tank, that was commonly used on G-12’s. I wrote to them and asked if it would be available as a separate item, but alas – it is only meant as an offering to their Bunny Fight Club members (I am a member), and I may buy a 109 just to harvest the tank for this project! (There are many options for other interesting marks in the box, so no great loss, but a real gain for this two-seater!)

    next up – well, your guess is as good as mine, but please feel free to comment while we wait!

  • Louis Gardner said 1 year, 3 months ago:

    This is a remarkable project you have underway. I have only seen one other two seat 109 built on another website that I occasionally visit. I don’t know how much detail went into the other build though.

    If it were mine, I would definitely build it as a Luftwaffe plane………….. with the factory radio call code letters on the side of the fuselage.

    I would be worried about breaking through the plastic by grinding it too thin. You are a much braver man than I !!!!

    It really looks good, and I’ll be looking forward to the next installment.

  • James B Robinson said 1 year, 3 months ago:

    Erik @airbum, with regards to a canopy that is not clear, I read on another blog where the modeler ran into a similar problem. His solution was to use a polishing product. Once he was satisfied, he dipped it in Future to protect it. Turned out very clear if not perfect.

    Sorry I’ve not found that link again, but here is a link to the product on Amazon: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B002UCYRZU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    And a link to the manufacturer: https://www.novuspolish.com/

    I’ve also seen this product used on car models as well. Just food for thought.

    James B

  • Pedro L. Rocha said 1 year, 3 months ago:

    Interesting project Erik, never thought or cared much about two seat version of well know fighters, but your work method gets this sort of thing interesting, might catch a few ideas from your work. Cheers!

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