1/35 Garford-Putilov Armoured Car - Copperstate Models

Started by George R Blair Jr · 153 · 1 week ago · 1/35, armoured car, Copperstate Models, Garford-Putilov Armoured Car, russian, ww1
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    Spiros Pendedekas said 3 weeks ago:

    Looking excellent so far, my friend @gblair! Looking forward to the weathering!

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    John vd Biggelaar said 3 weeks ago:

    Some excellent progress, George @gblair

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    Carl Smoot said 3 weeks ago:

    George (@gblair), Turret access was via some long lost technological process developed by the pre-Soviet Russains, called particle transformers. It was by pure chance that Gene Roddenberry happened to read about this technology and used it in his Star Trek TV series.

    On a more serious note, this really is turning out top notch George. One of the areas you seem to have a good handle on is getting colors to look correct and additionally, getting them to go down on the model in a way that doesn't look crude or roughly applied. Well done.

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    George R Blair Jr said 3 weeks ago:

    Thanks, Spiros (@fiveten) and John (@johnb). Now comes the fun part-weathering.

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    George R Blair Jr said 3 weeks ago:

    Thanks for the kind words, Carl (@clipper). After all these years of trying to figure out acrylic paints, I have finally reached a point where I can get predictable results. I think it is also my really old Passche H single action air brush, which I got 50 years or more. I have been taking notes as you paint your San Francisco model. Some really nice painting there.

    Now I know what that little pad is at the back of the turret. It is the Transporter!

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    Louis Gardner said 3 weeks ago:

    George R Blair Jr (@gblair)
    I did some digging and found out how the turret was entered. I didn't know the answer to your question either, and I became curious too. It caught my attention because I am a former US Army tanker like your Dad was. I wanted to find out as well.

    This is what I found out.

    The original crew was 9 men. The vehicle was heavy, very underpowered with a 20 horsepower 4 cylinder engine, and it only had a top forward speed of 10-11 MPH. It could go 1.86 MPH in reverse. Wow, that's lightning fast right there ! 🙂
    Even though it was slow and didn't do well off road because it was top heavy, (and also too heavy in general), it was very well liked by the men who operated them.

    The turret was not capable of rotating a full 360 degrees like today's modern tanks do. Instead the traverse was limited to 260 degrees of rotation. Combat experience found out that one of the assistant MG gunners was not needed. So they reduced the total crew number down to 8 men from the original 9.

    There were originally 5 men in the forward part of the armored car. They were the driver, commander, main MG gunner and two assistant gunners. The two assistant gunners not only loaded the MG's, but they could also operate the other MG as needed. Eventually the 5 crewmen here were reduced to 4, after combat experience revealed that one of the assistant gunners was not needed.

    These forward compartment crew men were not able to reach the other 4 members of the crew that were located in the turret. They were sealed off by the armored plates.

    The turret was manned by 4 other men. One man was the gunner, a loader, ammunition bearer and either of the last two could operate the MG in the turret as necessary. The fourth member was the driver, who was needed to operate the vehicle in reverse. They often retreated away from the enemy / target by simply having the rear driver take control of the vehicle and drive away in the opposite direction.

    This was safer, because they didn't have to turn the car around in order to retreat when they had to. It was also faster to operate this way. In a matter of seconds they could be bugging out.

    The turret had a butterfly hatch on the top. This is how the crew entered the turret. They usually didn't enter the turret once underway on a mission. Instead they climbed up on top of the turret and entered through the hatch before the mission began. They remained inside the turret during the mission, and exited only when they returned back from the mission, or in cases of emergencies like the vehicle became stuck, disabled, somehow damaged, or even caught fire.

    Hope this helps answer your question. This is a fascinating armored truck. It was built on a truck chassis that originally was manufactured in the USA, then exported to other countries.


    This is a screenshot from one of the websites I visited to find the answer to the question.

    tank-afv.com/ww1/russia/Putilov-Garford

    This is the website where I grabbed the screenshot. All credits belong to the person who owns / operates the webpage. I also found some information on Wikipedia.

    Take care buddy.

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    George R Blair Jr said 2 weeks, 6 days ago:

    Thanks for the info, Louis (@lgardner). I think this is an early war version, so some of the features that you found may not be included on this model. For instance, there is no upper hatch on the turret. The rear third of the turret roof is open. I suspect the hatch was added later to fill in the open area. I can't imagine 4 guys in the turret, or 9 guys total in the armoured car. It must have been very tight. This vehicle wouldn't seem like a good example of an armoured car, but I have read that many survived the war until the revolution in 1917, then apparently fought on both sides in the revolution. There are reports that there were a few in use at the start of WW2. Thanks again for the info.

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    George R Blair Jr said 2 weeks, 6 days ago:

    Today was weathering day, which is my favorite part of most models. I spent the morning using various colors of artist's oils to add some panel variation, fading, and rust. I have never used dry pigments on a model, so I spent the afternoon doing a little experimentation. You can use pigments just like artist's pastel chalk and simply brush the powder onto the model and blend it in. If you don't like it, you can use water to remove it and start over. For this build, I wanted to try to use the pigments to create accumulated dirt and mud. I read somewhere that you can mix the pigments with a binder, such as Odorless Turpenoid, and brush it into place. Well, it worked as advertised. I brushed and stippled the mix into place and moved it around with a brush that was damp with Turpenoid. Even after it was dry, I could take a damp brush and adjust the pigment. I found it a little difficult to judge the effect since the wet pigments are much darker than the dry pigments.

    That was it for the day. I am thinking about not building a diorama base and just add a figure to the model for scale purposes. I plan to let things sit for a day and then see how it looks. The pigments can still be adjusted tomorrow if necessary. Basically the model is done, except for possible adjustments in the weathering.

    Cheers everyone.

    8 attached images. Click to enlarge.

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    Louis Gardner said 2 weeks, 6 days ago:

    George
    This looks absolutely amazing. I like how you used the color pigments. It’s equally nice to know how they are applied. Thank you for the tutorial. It’s another tool to use in our quest to make the perfect model.

    As far as your armored vehicle goes that’s a definite possibility that you have an early version. It may even be one of the several different prototypes that were designed and developed for evaluation purposes.

    Like you mentioned I don’t see how anyone could have fit four men in the turret. It’s also open on the top.

    I didn’t realize how small it was until you placed the figure on it. Then I saw a true sense of scale and just how small it looked.

    I’m thinking that the later version had a much larger turret. Plus I don’t see anything that indicates there’s a driver position on the rear of the chassis. I read that the rear steering wheel was removable and it could be stored when not needed.

    So I sincerely believe that yours is an early version just like you mentioned.

    As far as the armor cover over the radiator goes, I think it’s mounted correctly and the angle would help deflect incoming bullets. The gaps on the top and the bottom would have allowed for some airflow to enter.

    I remember when I was in the Army and we were driving around in the Jeeps and the deuce and a half or even the 5 ton trucks during the coldest weather that we would cover the radiator core with cardboard to help keep the engine running in the operating temperature ranges. It seemed counterintuitive to do that but it actually worked out quite well.

    The driver had to keep his eye on the temperature gauge to make sure that it didn’t climb up into the overheated range. But personally I never experienced any problems with doing this in the extreme cold of winter when the temperatures were well below 0 degrees Fahrenheit.

    As far as not making the base, I completely understand and the choice is entirely up to you. Whatever works for you is best. In the end it is supposed to be fun. But things change and priorities change too.

    It’s almost time to take this one to the headlines section. I’m very impressed by your skills and your final results.

    You A number 1 Joe ! 😉

    Oops, my bad…. Wrong war…. Just trying to be funny that’s all.

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    Carl Smoot said 2 weeks, 6 days ago:

    Man oh man, I think what must have gone through the minds of the soldiers back then, especially the one more prone to thinking about details. On the surface, to an uneducated person, (of which I am sure there were many), having the armor would make them feel invincible, but the thinking man would probably know better and wonder about what would happen when an explosive got inside with all those men in there trying to get out.

    The car looks great George (@gblair) and the figure does a good job of giving a sense of scale. Perhaps for the base, start with a simple ground cover base and then if you feel like it, add other details later.

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    George R Blair Jr said 2 weeks, 6 days ago:

    Hi Louis (@lgardner): Thanks for the kind words. I have always thought that a figure gives a sense of scale. I don't use them much in planes, but the figures also come from Copper State and are designed to accompany their line of armoured cars. I would occasionally drive deuce and a halfs when I was a Lt. I was stationed in Phoenix, so we didn't get a lot of winter driving there.

    Hi Carl (@clipper): Armoured cars were a recent development for WW1 and they were pretty primitive by current standards, but they must have been seen as an attractive alternative to running across no man's land using nothing more than your feet. I might add a base later, but there are some planes I want to get to. When I finish the armoured car, I will take a few days to clean up the mess in my hobby room, then start one or two planes. I want to build a 1/72 FM-2 Wildcat and a 1/28 Fokker D.VII. I also have several figures that I 3D printed that I want to paint. I have never been very good at figures, so I up-scaled the figures to 1/16 so I can see the features to paint.

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    Spiros Pendedekas said 2 weeks, 6 days ago:

    Looks amazing after weathering, my friend @gblair! Adding a figure sounds a great idea!

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    John vd Biggelaar said 2 weeks, 6 days ago:

    Superb weathering, George @gblair
    What is your experience with turpanoid over acrylics, does it do any harm or will you have to apply a clear coat first.

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    George R Blair Jr said 2 weeks, 6 days ago:

    Thanks, Spiros (@fiveten) and John (@johnb). Now that I have decided to wait on the diorama base, having a German officer sitting on a Russian armoured car may not make sense. I may see if I can get a Russian figure to go with the model. Odorless Turpenoid works great over acrylics. I always apply a clear coat over the decals, but I have used the Turpenoid over both acrylic colors and acrylic clear without any problems. It has never softener or removed the acrylics. I have always thought that anything oil-based should work over acrylics, but the only thing I have ever used has been Turpenoid. I don't know if it makes a difference, but the only Turpenoid I have ever used is the one sold in art stores. Home improvement stores sell odorless thinner, but I have never tried it on my models. Also, 99% of my models are painted with either Tamiya or AK Real Colors, which are "hybrid" acrylics. I don't know if that makes a difference. Always test first, even with Turpenoid. Even now, I always find a place on the bottom of the wing that I test on. :o)

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    John vd Biggelaar said 2 weeks, 6 days ago:

    @gblair, thanks for this valuable information, George.