Now here's a post that certainly crosses the plastic divide.

This is clearly your domain and I hereby acede amendment rights to you, my brother. From my earliest memories in Shul we called 'Paul' Saul (or Shaul). As you say, as a Jew and Roman citizen he had both a Hebrew name and a Latin/Greek name (Paul). For 'us' the two names have always been interchangeable and there is no discernible difference or change after his 'conversion'. In this respect I will admit to using a common (and historically incorrect) heuristic for the sake of dramatic effect in that first post.

Interestingly (or not, which is much more likely), my own given birth name is Davis. This is actually remarkably analogous, in that I have two names and after building a tank, I have decided to keep my preferred title. Perhaps in centuries to come, historians may say, "after the Tiger, he became Davis" if indeed people 'saw' me differently after building an armoured vehicle. But they probably won't.

As you point out, the real conversion was the gift Paul/Saul passed to others. Carrying on the metaphor, could we convince you to try a hand at building a 'clunky thing'?

Some may claim this is a form of ecumenical rivet counting. But like Greg's recent outrage toward my cutting mat, and my abhorrence of Ju88's, forgiveness and common fraternity is the way forward.

Now please, go buy a tank...

Your brother,

David(is)

Was she one of the concrete Liberty ships?

D.T - Your knowledge of the Bible - especially the New Testament is astounding. I tend to get lost in the name changes and/or all the begats. I've never been very big on family history, so all the familial relationships are corn-fusing to me. Knowing that the good Doctor Saugrain was your great, great, great, great Grandfather is pretty special. All I know is that there are Baileys going back to Scotland (which is ok) and they may have been/were sheep thieves (NOT so ok!) which doesn't make for a good incentive to investigate further! Besides, my family (both sides, to my knowledge) have pretty much died out and those few of us remaining don't know much family history. Sad, right?!

I'd like to take credit for the pun, but "I'm a fraud" that was auto-correct run amok...

David, now that is downright remarkable stuff. And that sepia photo with Arthur Conan Doyle is a real keeper, wow. And given the photographic tech of the day I actually think that's a pretty fetching likeness of Florence.

My dad was really into the genealogy stuff, mostly from oral tradition through his dad and an aunt. I grew up with best records of my paternal grandfather's line and my maternal grandmother's line. My son got me a subscription to Ancestry and I began with what was the shallowest line I had--paternal grandmother, descendent of Irish Potato Famine immigrants--in an effort to tie it off as a sort of loose end. Oops. The thing blew up and took me back through Charlemagne to a Roman consul in the 4th century (not as notable as it seems; pretty much all us Europeans are cousins through Charlemagne). That's the line I told you of earlier, David, with Elizabeth of Rhuddlan, daughter of Edward I "Longshanks." I've barely touched anything since. Oh, but I did find when my Burrell line came from Scotland: 1856. So my grandfather Burrell--who drove the ambulance I am building--is really first generation American-born.

Saugrain is almost certainly my most illustrious ancestor of the last 200 years or so (scope of American history). He was a friend of Benjamin Franklin, known to Thomas Jefferson, and (one more thing), brother-in-law to Joseph Guillotin (Louise Saugrain, my great-whatever aunt, married Guillotin). Guillotin and Saugrain collaborated on vaccines. The main difference in life story is that Saugrain remained in France and bore no children, whilst Saugrain emigrated to the New World and produced a strong family line.

On the tank, one thing at a time, mates. Lemme get this vehicle behind me.

Jeff, on the S.S. Antoine Saugrain, I really don't know if she was a concrete Liberty ship. I doubt it, though, from what I've read. On the New Testament thing, I've got a Ph.D. in NT theology, with minors in Greek and NT literature, and I've been teaching for 30+ years. I'd better know it, or "I'm a fraud" they'll revoke my tenure! 🙂

Fascinating, David. Fundamentally we are all joined in ways that we find hard to understand and sometimes find hard to accept.

Just don't mention Longshanks.

Trust you to actually look at the damned map, Louis. There are at least three branches of my family tree that only exist due to 'Hooker Island'...

Here I am going off tangent again... David T and I have two ancestors that fought side by side at Bosworth Field. Google "Sir William Gardner" or Wyllyam Gardynyr and you will see...

some Welsh accounts stated that he delivered the fatal blow to King Richard III with a pole ax, that's some seriously nasty stuff ...

Now there are some other accounts that state otherwise... but the end result was the same. They found him under a parking lot a few years ago.

Yep... curiosity got the best of me, and I had to find the island... 🙂

"The plane Boss ! The plane..."

The ancestry/genealogy history has been fascinating to me. My cousin in San Antonio is the one that has been working the family tree. I got the urge when flying back from Desert Storm when our C-5 landed at Torrejon AFB, Spain my country of origin. Now the base is by Madrid, our family town or village is near the French border. My last name is Villanueva, yet the original spelling was Villenueve which is closer to being French in origin than a Spanish one, some one in our family changed the fifth and last "e" to "a". Still doing research on who and why. My cousin along with others in the family believe in their opinion to Americanize the name. Though there is really nothing American about it really. Our flight was for only a 2 hour layover until we continued on to Dover AFB in Delaware. At the time when our ancestors settled in San Antonio, Texas, it was still in Mexican control in the early 1830's. They had a pretty good sized hacienda in what is now Lackland AFB and part of Kelly. Yeah lots of land that was purchased not taken when Texas became a republic then a state.

What is amazing by accident I discovered a possible link that dates back to Biblical times. Following a group of Jews that immigrated to Europe after being allowed to leave Babylon. (yep being that my family line may have Hebrew blood) my dad was not thrilled (devout Catholic) when I told him what I found. This group that followed a route from what is now Saudi Arabia, Egypt and crossed the Mediterranean to the Iberian Peninsula. Some settling there as others continued into what is France, Denmark (Dan, Den, Danish, yes that Daniel), Belgium and across the channel to the island of Brittania. By the way if those that don't know, the Crown Jewels that Queen Elizabeth wears that crown is the exact same crown of King David. The very same crown that our Lord Jesus is to wear when He returns.

Now back to my lineage. Fascinating stuff as I teach a class in Eschatology at our church. My mentor and also my co-facilitator in our class is brilliant. I learned so much from this man. This is the study of the End Times, and it is not just Revelation. It starts in Genesis. While studying the migration of man is when I found that how my family line orginated long before the voyage to America. It is fascinating stuff and I am so blessed some of our friends here have learned a bit of your family lineage. . That you have found direct lines to history in the Dark Ages. That part is still in the "dark" for where our family was up to somewhere in Espana.

That is still unknown. But I am hoping to get together with my cousins in San Antonio and see where we are at. And even finding our family Coat of Arms, do you know yours?

This is just the tip of the iceberg so to speak, this subject is so deep and filled with information that just goes right over peoples heads. Thats why our Pastor would have a tough time teaching a message about it. Not enough time to present it, and there is no simple way to explain it. Most will not get it. Even in class we get questions after a session. I hope I didn't go too long, sorry if I did.