1/48 scale ICM Ki-21 "Sally"

Started by Louis Gardner · 143 · 9 months ago
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    Spiros Pendedekas said 11 months, 2 weeks ago:

    As always, your color research is second to none, my friend @lgardner! Great shade choice! Nothing wrong in using a "Luftwaffe" paint in a Japanese plane: if it looks right to the eye, it probably is!
    Greetings from QC1 and QC2! Looking forward to your painting!

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    John vd Biggelaar said 11 months, 2 weeks ago:

    Excellent research, Louis @lgardner
    To me your chosen color is the correct one.
    Looking forward to see it painted.

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    Tom Cleaver said 11 months, 2 weeks ago:

    @lgardner - RLM76 actually sounds pretty good.

    I just checked, and Mr. Color 117 - RLM76 - comes out when stirred completely in exactly that shade on the Millman color chip. Whodathunkit.

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    Michael Turner said 11 months, 2 weeks ago:

    G’day Louis (@lgardner),

    Picking coulours is fraught with uncertainty.

    I used Tamia XF-14 for Dupont Sky Gray (RAF Sky type S equivalent) on my P-40E. It is similar to Sky S, but not as bright.

    Mine also doesn’t look as dark as your sample, but that is what happens when you have different lighting, computer monitors and, sometimes, different batches of paint.

    My only advice is to test the combination of colours - the base blue green and the green camo - to make sure they look good together to you.

    When I come to building my next JAAF aircraft I will see if I can get some MRP RLM 76 to see for myself.

    I’m looking forward to the next steps.

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    Louis Gardner said 11 months, 2 weeks ago:

    George R Blair Jr (@gblair)
    Thank you for the compliments. I'm actually quite pleased with how this model has been going together. Lately I have been ultra busy with our home repair project, so my bench time has been limited. Most of the time, I try to get the colors as accurate as I can at the time of my builds. Sometimes I go down the rabbit hole a little deeper than I do on others. This is a kit I had been wanting to build for a while now, so I had been collecting some information about it beforehand. This seemed to help a lot, since I knew roughly what the game plan was before I got busy with it.

    The major mistake I made was using the Japanese navy color "Ameiro" on the dorsal gunner's compartment turtle deck. Now the clear canopy is permanently glued in place I will have to live with it. I made a mistake and should have known better. I didn't realize that I had done it until I looked at the pictures I posted here. Then it stuck out like a sore thumb !

    Your trio of Hudson's are looking wonderful and I hope to see the paint on #3 soon. It would be great if we got a new tool Lockheed Hudson... even an Electra would be nice, both in my preferred scale of 1/48. We are indeed living in the Golden Age of model building. I never dreamt we would end up with a very nice Ki-21 in 1/48... but we did ! Yippee !

    Now a nice 1/48 Mitsubishi G3M "Nell" would be even more appreciated.

    Thanks buddy for stopping by, and the continued support.

    Merry Christmas too.

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    Louis Gardner said 11 months, 2 weeks ago:

    Spiros Pendedekas (@fiveten)
    Hello again my friend ! I'm happy to hear from QC1 and QC2. You have been blessed with a wonderful wife and family, and I commend you for spending time with your boys and also teaching them the fine art of model building. I can remember some of my better childhood times were spent like this with my dad. These are events they will cherish for the rest of their lives.

    You know me well... I like to do considerable research on the various colors that were used. The good old Mk 1 eyeball is still the best measurement used to determine what looks right, and what doesn't.
    But still we should try to have fun while doing this... and for me, the researching is part of the fun. I really enjoy digging into things like this.

    Thanks again !

    Merry Christmas too.

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    Louis Gardner said 11 months, 2 weeks ago:

    John vd Biggelaar (@johnb)
    Hey John ! Thank you for the compliments. I think the color choice of using the MRP 066 is going to be a good one, especially when I look at the computer generated color chips that Nick Millman has generated and posted online. He has probably forgotten more about these Japanese colors than I ever knew. The proof will be how it looks once it's sprayed onto the model. That will be the ultimate test. I will take it outside and grab a few pictures of it once this is done, and this should give us a good indication if my choice was correct or not. It will also get some Dark Green randomly sprayed on top of this color for the upper camouflage.

    Merry Christmas to you and your family. Take care my friend, and thank you for stopping by.

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    Louis Gardner said 11 months, 2 weeks ago:

    Tom Cleaver (@tcinla)
    Hey Tom. Thank you for the kind words. I'll have to take your advice on the Mr. Color 117, as I don't have any of it on hand to sample. I'm sure it's going to be good though, and I look forward to seeing your model. Another good avenue to look at would be to investigate the various RAF versions of "Sky". It is also a very similar color as what we are looking to use on our builds.

    I'm happy that I made the decision to start spraying out color cards for the various paints I have, as this helps considerably when trying to chose the color that suits the project best.

    One other thing I have found out, is that colors will look differently, depending on if they were brush painted or sprayed, and I have read where the PSI could also possibly affect the final finish. I don't know how true that last part is, I think it's more of a matter of thicker or thinner coverage instead. I remember when I was building my desert version of a Monogram He-111 in 1/48 scale, when I hand painted the RLM 79 Sand Gelb canopy frame on the dorsal gunner's position. It didn't even come close to the color that I had sprayed on the rest of the plane.

    Then I have also found out that colors look different when they are still in the bottle versus the final application. When they dry, they are almost always a little bit lighter or darker than what one might expect.

    Thanks again, and Merry Christmas.

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    John vd Biggelaar said 11 months, 2 weeks ago:

    Looking forward to the paint session, Louis @lgardner
    Thanks a lot and Merry Christmas to you and your family as well. Wishing you all the best.

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    Louis Gardner said 11 months, 2 weeks ago:

    Michael Turner (@michaelt)
    Hello my friend, and Merry Christmas to you.

    I was actually quite surprised at how dark the Tamiya XF-14 looked. It might have something to do with the index card being a solid white color. This affects how our eyes perceive a given color. The true test will be when it is sprayed on the model itself. There's an excellent article posted over at Rato's modeling website, where he goes over the various RAF equivalent colors that were used on AVG P-40's. I found it very interesting and informative as well.

    http://www.ratomodeling.com.br/articles/AVG_cammo/

    Here is a link to it in case you might be interested.

    You are absolutely correct. Paint samples can vary a little from jar to jar when being used. This is especially true when the paint wasn't properly mixed up prior to application, as this leaves behind the unused portion of the formula still inside of the paint bottle. In time, this will affect the way one battle looks when compared to another. Plus there could be a small discrepancy during the actual manufacturing process.

    I think the biggest things however, are what you mentioned. Lighting, computer monitor settings and so on.

    I have done some more research and will be posting the choice of color I will be using for the Dark Green in a few minutes. When you get the MRP 066 paint, I would really like to hear from you about what you think about it.

    Please stay tuned as I have another update coming right up.

    I think you will find it interesting too, as it's about colors as well.

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    Louis Gardner said 11 months, 2 weeks ago:

    Here is tonight's update.

    I have some masking pictures to show, and some more information on the choice I have made for the Dark Green color that was used on the upper surfaces of the Ki-21.

    So hang on while we take this ride !


    I am happy to report the dorsal gunner's greenhouse canopy is completely masked now.

    ... as is the main pilot's canopy.


    All of the rear fuselage windows are done as well. These could have turned out a little better. If I'm not happy with how these look, I might actually knock them out after the model is painted, and create some new ones using some Testor's window cement. It's too early to tell just yet though. I will definitely be coming back and pressing the tape down tighter against the clear windows. It's lifting a little on some of the edges. Masking all of these tiny windows are the worst part about building this kit... but they were on the real plane and I think ICM has done a great job of replicating them.

    I have removed the Tamiya masking tape from the leading edge of the wings, where it was used to cover the Yellow IFF stripes. These Yellow stripes were not present on the aircraft the AVG flew against in late 1941 or early 1942. Going from memory here, they only came into use sometime around September 1942. So these are going to be painted over.


    Some of this freshly removed Tamiya tape was then salvaged and used to mask off the window panels in the nose section.

    http://www.aviationofjapan.com/2013/11/ijaaf-paint-colour-standard-21.html

    Now lets get to the color choice I have made for the Dark Green. Once again, it's based of an article that was written and posted by Nick Millman at the Aviation of Japan website. The link has been provided above.


    He talks here about the Japanese Army color called #21. We often hear it being called Midori Iro, or "Green Color". This was often a color used by the Japanese Army aircraft depots to camouflage the upper surfaces on their aircraft in the field, after they were delivered from the factory in the original colors.


    Then he goes on to describe how these colors look using his digitally produced color chips. Here he is using scans of various model paint colors.

    Not surprising, none of them were a spot on match to the original color, which is listed on top of his color swatch.

    One thing I noticed was that he mentioned the MR Color 129 Nakajima "Dark Green" was a good color to use when you took into consideration the so called "scale effect". The best match however was White Ensign Model ACJ 05, Nakajima Green.


    As luck would have it, I happen to have a bottle of the Mr. Color 129 on hand, but I don't have the WEM paint available to me. I will be spraying out a color chip card and if I like how it looks, and I'll use it on the Sally too.

    Here's one thing that we should keep in mind about these color choices I have made. There's no definite way to know for 100 percent certainty, these colors I picked out are correct.

    The possibility exists that captured, or even some local paint stocks could have been used too. If this is the case, anything goes... and I think you will be perfectly fine to simply pick out a Dark Green you like and roll with it. This is supposed to be fun. Dare someone to prove you are wrong... 🙂


    In the end, these two paints are my color choices. The Dark Green will likely look a little bit different when compared to my home made color chip card, simply because I will be spraying on thin coats, with it being applied heavier in some locations.

    Also the base color will be the RLM 76 color, and not a solid white background like the paint card will have.

    We are expecting some rain over the weekend, so I'm hoping that I will get a little break from the home improvement project, and get in some decent bench time. This may sound a little silly for a grown man to say, but I can't wait to get the paint going on this model !

    The masking is getting closer to being done, so hopefully it will not be too much longer now. All I have left to mask is the rest of the bombardier / front gunner's position windows, and the landing light covers.

    Then it will be show time !

    Merry Christmas everyone, and as always comments are encouraged.

    Thanks for stopping by.

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    Spiros Pendedekas said 11 months, 2 weeks ago:

    Wonderful masking and excellent color choice, my friend @lgardner! As always, your color research is supreme!

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    Tom Cleaver said 11 months, 2 weeks ago:

    That MRP RLM76 looks very very close to the Mr Color 117 RLM76. I have that Mr Color 129 Nkajima Green and will use it also.

    Thanks for your multiple trips through the minefield here, @lgardner.

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    John vd Biggelaar said 11 months, 2 weeks ago:

    Excellent masking, Louis @lgardner
    Great information about the to be used color, thanks for sharing.
    Merry Christmas to you and your family as well. Wishing you all the best.

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    Erik Gjørup said 11 months, 2 weeks ago:

    As always your research goes the extra mile! Merry Christmas Louis.