Fine Molds 1:72 Kyushu Q1W1 "Lorna"

Started by George R Blair Jr · 41 · 4 years ago · 1/72, Fine Molds, Kyushu, Lorna, Q1W1
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    George R Blair Jr said 4 years, 6 months ago:

    Thanks everyone. I really like this kit, but hit a slow patch today. The vertical stabilizer/rudder, and the horizontal stabilizers are all separate. You usually have the vertical stabilizer as part of the fuselage casting, so it is a lot easier to get the horizontal surfaces correct. Getting the vertical and horizontals lined up has been interesting. The fuselage is on the workbench allowing the glue to set completely. Sadly the vertical surface required some putty to smooth it into the fuselage, making for an awkward filling and sanding location.

    Chuck @uscusn: AK Real Colors (RC306) IJN Mitsubishi Interior Green. This is the color called for in the kit instructions. Tamiya XF-71 Cockpit Green is a close match. I love using AK Real Colors, which are very similar to Tamiya paints. I have used Tamiya Lacquer Thinner with the Real Colors, and it works fine. Real Colors has several interior colors specifically for Japanese aircraft, in addition to a bunch of exterior colors for Japanese aircraft. Sometimes their color names aren't very descriptive, such as Dark Green 1 and Dark Green 2, or they use the actual name, such as Midori Iro. My resources have gotten a workout figuring out which colors I need.

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    George R Blair Jr said 4 years, 6 months ago:

    The tail section of the build is complete. I was worried about the fact that the vertical stabilizer was a separate piece that might be difficult to align, but it and the two horizontal stabilizers were glued to the airframe with a minimum of filling and sanding. Yeah!

    I have also completed one of the jobs that I like least in a build. Yes, I just finished masking the canopy. I generally build airplanes that have a relatively simple canopy, and I almost never build a model that doesn't already have an existing pre-made set of canopy masks. Yes, I can stand only so many challenges in my modeling. But the masking of this canopy (that had somewhere around 400 panes of plexiglass), even with pre-made masks, was a long ordeal. I am really glad that Eduard is very orderly and organized in their instructions. Done, and done. Yeah!

    Got a bunch of the small items either glued onto the model or painted and ready for later addition. Not much is left, including the landing gear, auxiliary drop tanks, bombs, engines, and nacelles.

    I am taking some time to plan out the painting steps coming up. I want to try to replicate the well-worn surface seen in some of the pictures contained in my reference, Japanese Anti-Submarine Aircraft of WW2. I don't usually apply this much weathering to my models, so it will be new experience. If anyone has suggestions about the best way to add this weathering, please let me know. For now, I am planning to do some underpainting, then use some chipping fluid, and then add the surface color. After that, go for some chipping and additional weathering using Vallejo and AK weathering products, some oil washes, and maybe some pastel chalks. I seriously plan to be sure my Karma is in sync with the universe before I attempt any of this. The Lorna build has gone well, so I don't want to press my luck too much.

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    Bill Koppos said 4 years, 6 months ago:

    I tell ya I'm not seeing a lot of chipping/peeling on this. Unless the pic shows it better in person. I am seeing a lot of sun fading/bleaching. And oil stains. I don't know if this machine has been sitting in a boneyard, postwar, or an operational plane. If I was reproducing this one I would build in some uppersurface fading, and vary the colors.
    With a twin tail, this would look like a Junior Dornier 17.

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    Paul Barber said 4 years, 6 months ago:

    Hey George - what a mammoth effort on the canopy and once again thanks to someone for looking over us with pre-cut masks!

    I think I’d go with pastels and flat coat for the finish on the faded areas. As an anti-sub or spotter plane it might have seen plenty of salt breeze and sunshine.

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    George R Blair Jr said 4 years, 6 months ago:

    Thanks Bill @billkoppos and Paul @yellow10. You are right about the photo, looks like just fading on this plane. Poor choice of photos to illustrate the weathering on my part. The photo I chose is of the particular version that I am modeling. The painted symbol on the rear of the fuselage that looks like a backward "C" identifies this as a radar equipped plane. Other planes contained only magnetic detection equipment.

    Here are a couple more photos that more clearly show the chipping I am trying to replicate.


    The first picture is probably after the war since it looks like there are some Japanese mechanics (or perhaps American mechanics is fatigue uniforms) and some soldiers who appear to be wearing American helmets. Notice they are shoveling something dark on or off the wing root. I'm curious what they are doing, maybe soaking up leaking fluid? You can see some big leaks at the top of the fuselage. When I was flying C-141s, the maintenance personnel would soak up spilled hydraulic fluid or oil using various materials (that always seemed to look like sawdust). I suspect this may be a team that is prepping the plane to ship back to the US for evaluation.

    The second photo appears to be after the war and shows some chipping and wear, especially along the wing root. Both pictures show some chipping, or fading over the rivet/panel lines on the wings. The surface that is exposed at the wing root doesn't look like metal. Perhaps the chipping has exposed the primer, or perhaps it is exposed metal that has oxidized in the salt air. I'm not sure what color of primer might have been used, so I need to do some research. Anyone know what color the primer might be?

    Something interesting to notice in both photos is that the flaps are hanging almost straight down. I suspect they could hang at this extreme angle because they would also be used as dive brakes.

    Thanks for the comments and suggestions.

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    Spiros Pendedekas said 4 years, 6 months ago:

    Hi George @gblair! Your Lorna is greatly proceeding. Your masking job is great and those masks were an absolute must.

    Regarding weathering, I agree with Bill @billkoppos. There doesn't seem to be a lot of chipping at that operational plane, but sun fading and dirtying/staining does exist. About your next after war pics that show some more serious paint chipping, it may be that the this chipping was subtle (as in first pics above) when the plane was operational and escalated gradually with time after the plane was grounded for good. I support this idea, as I've seen decomissioned planes chip with time at the spots (mainly) where the paintgob was strained for any reason during the operational use of the plane. Please check below these grounded for good Dakota pics I took some days ago. This plane is in SEA camo and is grounded for about a decade now. I can tell you that the paintjob was pristine before it was grounded (it is also interesting to see that dark green has faded to a brownish shade, whereas light green and brown have just bleached to a lighter shade). So, you are full with options with your Lorna.

    All the best, my friend!

    5 attached images. Click to enlarge.

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    Paul Barber said 4 years, 6 months ago:

    You could well have a point about the primer George - there seem to be two colours there - the darker of the colours seem to be fringed With a lighter shade. In some ways it probably depends on which part of the war or at least when (and where) the plane was produced? Earlier built aircraft were painted more effectively and would have used (by memory) red oxide primer. I have read elsewhere that the accurate way to depict those planes was airframe aluminium, under red oxide, under camo colour. That said this is a can of worms.

    However you do it, two things spring to mind:

    1. We sometimes choose not build things as they looked because it would make a really messy model - but this one looks great definitely one to go for the big weathering on!

    2. This research part is always as much fun as the build itself!

    Can’t wait to see the approach you choose, George. Brilliant choice of subject!

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    George R Blair Jr said 4 years, 6 months ago:

    Thanks, Spiros @fiveten. I love the pictures. I have a couple of sets of decals for Greek aircraft, including a T-2 Buckeye. My first assignment when I came on active duty in 1973 was Luke AFB in Arizona when they were flying F-4 Phantoms. They all had the 3 color Vietnam camouflage, and they would fade in some very interesting colors in the Arizona sun.

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    George R Blair Jr said 4 years, 6 months ago:

    Thanks, Paul @yellow10. Today is research day to see if I can come up with a plan for the weathering. Appreciate the suggestions.

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    George R Blair Jr said 4 years, 6 months ago:

    I spent the morning doing some research trying to sort out my color conundrums. I found some good info and now know how to proceed on my Lorna. Sorry, what follows is a long blob of info. Can you tell I was a college history instructor after I retired from the Air Force?

    First issue: What color was the primer used on IJN aircraft?
    I am sure there are many of you who already know the answer to this, but I don't build a lot of WW2 Japanese aircraft and never needed to know before. In my reference photos it appeared that the surface exposed by paint chipping was a color darker than the dark green of the surface paint. Working with black and white photos doesn't help make color determinations any easier. So I did some searching on the internet and of course discovered there is a lot of debate on the color of the primer applied to Japanese aircraft. Basically, everyone agrees that a primer/preservative named Aotake was used as the first coat over the bare metal. This preservative was a clear lacquer that was tinted with paint to make it easier to judge the coverage of the sprayed-on lacquer. Most sources say that Aotake was usually a blue/green color. I suddenly remembered building some Japanese planes in the 1960s with a metallic blue/green cockpit (which was probably not correct, anyway). But I found other sources that described Aotake as a green color, or a blue color, or yellow, or brown. IPMS Stockholm's color reference charts call it Aotake Iro and describe it as a blue-green transparent lacquer. A little confusing. Then I found a blog by an aviation artist named Ron Cole. He does art prints of WW2 aircraft, and frames them with pieces of an actual WW2 aircraft. In the process of doing this, he is applying an artist's sense of color to the aircraft fragments he obtains. So his explanation is that the Aotake was applied to each part of the aircraft separately in the factory before it was assembled on the aircraft. As Japan diversified the locations of their parts manufacturing to prevent their destruction, the colors of the Aotake began to change based on where the part was manufactured. Each factory might have slightly different colors. The parts would then be collected and assembled into an airplane. It is possible that an individual plane could have 4 or more different colors of Aotake. He says that the airframe was sometimes given a coat of flat black as a paint primer, and then the surface color would be applied. If you go to his blog, he has many photos that show these things. This could all be speculation, but it makes sense to me. My Lorna could have paint chipping that would expose a flat black primer. If you go deeper, you might find the Aotake. And deeper you get to the bare metal. That my story and I'm sticking to it. I have included a couple of photos from Ron Cole's blog to illustrate all of this.



    Question 2: How do I want to depict the Lorna?
    I did a bunch of reading in my book on the Anti-Submarine Aircraft used by the IJN in WW2, and found some very specific color info. I also examined the many photos in the book and decided what to do. The book indicates that IJN ground crews took very good care of their planes as long as they could. They would keep the paint looking good and would repair dings and chips as soon as they could. The paint, of course, would fade due to the action of sun and salt water. Also remember that we are talking about a twin engine bomber that flew from prepared airfields. As you might guess, toward the end of the war it became difficult to get the paint and other supplies they needed to keep the plane looking good. I went back and looked at the photos of operational aircraft (versus the wrecks after the war) and discovered that they universally looked well-cared for and the paint didn't really show any chips. So, my plan for the Lorna is to depict an operational aircraft with faded paint. A deeper dive into the markings changed my plan for using most of the decals. It turns out I was incorrect about the backward "C" marking on my chosen plane. It indicates that the plane had MAD (Magnetic Anomaly Detector) gear. That still works for my model, so far. If the plane was equipped with MAD gear, it was also indicated by a yellow diagonal stripe on the tail. If it also had radar, the stripe would be red with yellow borders. My model will have both MAD and radar, but only has a yellow diagonal decal for the tail. These planes also had white rectangles on the left wing root which marked walkways, and these are missing from the decals. So I plan to add a bunch of the markings using masks and painting, which will give me more control over the appearance and fading.

    Well, that's it for now. Sorry, this was long and perhaps information overload, but it does show that the info is out there if you want to find it. Saturday will bring some time for painting and experimenting with how best to depict all of this stuff. Cheers to everyone, and stay safe.

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    Spiros Pendedekas said 4 years, 6 months ago:

    Hi George! What a great piece of information.
    I loved your research and the concluding remarks for application to your Lorna. For me, this is one of the magic aspects of our hobby.
    Thanks for sharing.
    Your Lorna will look terrific!

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    Erik Gjørup said 4 years, 6 months ago:

    Thank you for the history lesson @gblair - will come in handy when(if) I choose to undertake anything of this kind. Thanks for sharing.

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    George R Blair Jr said 4 years, 6 months ago:

    Well, we had no plans for Saturday, and I managed to get in 5 painting sessions, or was it 6? Who knows? Time's fun when you are having flies. Isn't it cool that acrylics dry so quickly that 5 or 6 sessions are even possible in a day? Anyway, the paint is basically done on the Lorna. I'm not completely sure my painting path makes any sense, mainly because there are some techniques that I was itching to try and I'm hoping it doesn't make the Lorna look like a hodge podge. I wanted to try some AK Chipping Fluid and I also wanted to try some sun fading on the upper surfaces. After researching the markings, I also decided I would need to paint some of the markings rather than use the kit decals. So, here goes the play by play:

    I started by cleaning the model with some alcohol. My last model had some problems with paint peeling under some masking tape, so I hoped to prevent another problem. For the bottom of the plane, I decided I would use the chipping fluid to simulate a plane that occasionally flew from some unimproved airstrips. My research found that these planes flew from Japan, Taiwan, and China, so I can't imagine all of the Chinese strips being concrete. My research had shown the likelihood that the primer under the surface color was possibly black, which seemed to match with some of the WW2 photos I had. I sprayed black primer from a can over the bottom surfaces. After the black dried, I brush painted the chipping fluid straight from the bottle onto some selected surfaces.

    After everything dried, I pre-shaded the bottom using some Tamiya light gray. Following the pre-shade, I began adding light, well-diluated coats of AK IJN Gray. I built the gray up slowly until I had a subtle pre-shaded surface.

    After the gray dried, I cut some wavy masks to mark the edge between the gray and the green on the upper surfaces. I let the gray dry for about 30 minutes and then started working with the chipping. I had never tried chipping fluid before, but it works great. The first step is to wet the areas to be chipped with water. I got the process started by gently delinating the areas to be chipped with a wooden toothpick. After that, I used a stiff paint brush and water to chip the paint. It was a lot of fun and I really like how it looks, even if there is a lot more chipping than might be appropriate in 1/72. With a little more planning I could have made much more scale chipping. A word of warning here. After you have finished this effect, it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to use a layer of clear to seal this effect. If you don't and later use some masking tape over the same area, it will pull up more paint. Ask me how I know.

    For the upper surfaces, I used Tamiya XF-11 IJN Green with a bunch of white added to create a faded appearance. After this first coat was on the plane, I started adding lighter and dark IJN Green in a hopefully subtle pattern. So far, so good.

    After my research, I knew that I would need to add some markings that either weren't provided in the decals or were inaccurate in the decals. I needed to add some white wing walk areas on the left wing root, the center of the right wing, and just aft of the canopy. The tail would need a red diagonal stripe with yellow edges. And finally, I wanted to add the 60 degree stripes on the wings. These yellow lines were an aid for formation flying. They are included as decals, but I figured if I already had the yellow paint out anyway I might as well do the stripes, too. I am hoping that painting these markings will allow me add to the weathered look of the plane. I usually have pretty good luck with masking, but I figured these markings would really test my luck.

    Well, so far, so good. I am also trying to make some changes to the decals. I wasn't looking forward to masking and painting the yellow leading edges of the wings. I thought the yellow edges up against the fuselage and engines would be hard to mask, so I wanted an alternative. I took the kit decals and faded portions of them using yellow paint. I think they will apply just like a regular decal when the time comes. In addition, there is a Japanese character on the tail that is depicted as a yellow decal. It should be red for this version of the plane. I plan to paint the yellow decal using red paint, and then apply it normally. I think it will work.

    Well, it's time to go watch some Netflix and unwind. Clear coat tomorrow, followed by decals. Yeah!

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    Spiros Pendedekas said 4 years, 6 months ago:

    Hi George. That's amazing progress and equally detailed presentation. I loved your approach and execution. Waiting impatiently for your next installment!

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    Erik Gjørup said 4 years, 6 months ago:

    it will pull up more paint. Ask me how I know[{quote]

    • I think I better not. . .

    But WOW @gblair - that is a very well performed weathering for a first time using chipping fluid.