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Random thoughts on Japanese colors. The Japanese A6M Zero…Part 1

Japanese A6M Zero Colors… Part 1

I recently posted a similar article to this one about WW2 Japanese Aviation colors. It was not completely prepared so I removed the original posting. This is along the same line as my original intent.

Hopefully you will find it to be an easier read, since it is aircraft specific.

The following article is to be used as a guide, and only as a guide. Please do not take this “definitive”. Information changes as new discoveries are made.


I have included links to other research websites dealing on this subject. This will allow you, the reader, the opportunity to make your own informed choices on the colors used by the various manufacturers of Japanese aircraft during the War.

I suggest that if you are really serious about the colors used on Japanese (or any Nation’s aircraft for that matter), that you do your own research. There’s a lot of information available on the web, but not everything you read on the Internet is valid… so take caution with what you read.

What I’m about to show you is based on my collection of notes on information which I believe to be true. I am also providing color chips that are very close to the original colors that were used on the A6M.

I scanned these color chips from my Federal Standard book, and they look very convincing… at least on my computer monitor. Some of the pages in my book are starting to turn a little yellow. Please do not be alarmed by this. The color chips still look good as new.

When I scanned these color chips, the scanner settings were left at the factory setting of “0” Zero… I spent a lot of time doing this for you. Hours…that turned into days.

This article is written based on the research of others, not mine. All I did was gather this information and sort through it.

I wanted to make this article clear and concise, and include a lot of information on specific aircraft colors available to use in one handy location as a reference.
Full credit for this research is due to men such as Nick Millman, Jim Lansdale, Ryan Towes, and countless others who have been studying in this area of research for many years.

This will hopefully be a series of articles that will eventually include various other Japanese aircraft and the colors they used.

Each article will be based on a specific aircraft type. Just as this article is concerned with the A6M Zero, there will be a following one for the Ki-43 Oscar, and yet another on the Ki-61 Tony as examples.

More “episodes” will continue with this series in the future if they are well received now.

Over the past few years I have been collecting notes on a lot of different WW2 Japanese aircraft. There are two main websites I have been using for color research where a TON of information on this subject has been written.
These websites are J.aircraft.com and Aviation of Japan.

http://www.j-aircraft.com/

Notice the background color of the page on this next website… (just a little hint). 😉

http://www.aviationofjapan.com/

Almost everything over there has been compiled over the years and is a collection of research that is based on evidence and not conjecture or theory of some individual. Countless research hours have been spent by these persons, some of whom are aviation historians residing in Japan. These people have been scouring the archives, making trips to various museums, examining relics and artifacts of crashed aircraft that are located in museums and private collections from around the world.

I need not say it, but these guys really know their stuff !

Speaking about stuff, look how nice the underside of this wing looks ! It’s shiny and clean…

Various Japanese aircraft items have been personally examined by these professionals. They have concluded what color they believe these items to be. Sometimes one person will say this part is this color, while another professional will say it is a very similar color, although different in the color chip number.

This happens because we all see colors a little differently. Women actually have a better color perception ability than men…

During this journey, I have also found out that light, (natural or artificial), will affect the appearance of a color. So do scanners and cell phone cameras. Thanks for the tips Boris…

@raikisan

These various Japanese aircraft relic items were compared to several different types of color swatches.

Color swatches used were from a US Federal Standards color chip book for certain aircraft parts. (I just happen to have one of these books… mine is the 1994 edition. More on that later).

Meanwhile, notice how well taken care of these early examples are… Highly polished propeller blades. The cowling has a shine to it as well.

The down side to the Federal Standards system is that it occasionally does not provide a good match to Japanese colors from World War 2. It will still give you a decent general guideline as to how the color could have looked, since it is a “Standard” of color.

The Federal Standards (or “FS” system) was placed in service during the 1950’s, some years after World War Two ended. It’s still used by the US Government today. They are still available should you want one. They come in handy when mixing up your own colors that are not available commercially.

There is however another more accurate way to match Japanese colors. This is the Munsell system. This system was also used on some of these “relic” items I talked about above to get a color match. The downside to the Munsell system is cost. They are expensive.

Both color systems have now been converted into computer programs, so that you can digitally render how a color “should” look. Please keep in mind that things like computer monitor screens will change how these colors appear to you.

Here’s a link to a website that will allow you to type in a FS color number and have the color digitally rendered on your computer screen.

http://www.colorserver.net/

On some occasions, these Japanese “relic” items have also been subjected to testing of paint samples at various laboratories, to reveal exactly what chemical components and pigments these colors actually were made of, and how they could have looked when new. This will also rule out the arguments that have been made about how a color will shift as it ages, or has been exposed to heat or sunlight over time.

This is an evolving field of study, and new finds are uncovered on a regular basis. Because of this, what was once considered as fact, has now become myth in some incidents.

Notice at how the overall color of these restored Zeros look in each different photograph… I will discuss this later in another episode.

One such example is the Blue / Green color called “Aotake”.

Aotake was a clear protective coating that was sprayed on aircraft aluminum to help protect it from corrosion. Depending on how it was sprayed on the metal, (and even to some extent where it was sprayed on the airframe), it changes the look considerably. Areas that were exposed to wetness (or the elements) often shifted from a blue to more of a green shade. In some instances, one side of a panel could be blue “ish” in color, while still having some green present in another part of the same panel. “Aotake” is typically a translucent color that allows the aluminum to show through from underneath, and will appear darker as more of the material is applied. It is commonly found inside fuselage and wing components, but not typically in crew compartment areas.

A rather convincing way to duplicate the look of Aotake when building models, is to spray on a base color of aluminum first. Once the aluminum color has dried, I use Tamiya Clear Blue X-24 and spray on a light coat. It’s OK to let it get a little heavy in the corners. Then I will go back and spray on a very light coat of Tamiya X-24 Clear Yellow in a few places, making sure not to cover all of the blue. You will notice how the shade changes to a green where you have added the yellow. You can also use Tamiya Clear Green X-25 if you want. Experiment with this method, but keep in mind the trick is to “not” get it uniform ! You want it to have variations just as the real stuff did…

Here’s a good example of “Aotake” from a Japanese plane. I found this photo online.

For many years this “Aotake” color was considered the “go to” color that was used in “all” Japanese aircraft cockpits. If you have any older model kits in your collection, look at the instructions… you will see what I mean. Needless to say, this is not always 100 percent correct, but the kit manufacturers didn’t have this information available to them back then…

We do indeed live in the “Golden Age of Modelling”.

The A6M Zero was manufactured by two different companies during the War. Much like the F4U Corsair was manufactured by Vought, Goodyear, and the Brewster aircraft companies, the A6M was built by Mitsubishi and Nakajima. Because of this, there are several areas where different colors were used.

******************************************************
One thing to keep in mind is that all of the A6M Zeros that were used in the attack on Pearl Harbor were Mitsubishi built machines. Nakajima produced Zeros started rolling off the assembly lines later…
******************************************************

This next information on the landing gear and tail wheel colors was obtained through one of Nick Millman’s postings.

Wheel Well / Main Landing Gear Bay Areas:

A6m-2

Mitsubishi:

Mitsubishi built planes had the interior of the wheel wells painted in the same colors that were used on the exterior. This means that these locations should be the same “Amber Gray” color as the rest of the airframe is on the outside.

The main landing gear doors and the smaller “Crescent” shaped inner doors were also painted in the same “Amber Gray” color on Mitsubishi aircraft, inside and out.

The main landing gear struts were painted in a “Gloss Black” FS17038 color.

The retracting yokes on the small inner “Crescent” shaped doors were also painted using Gloss Black.

The torque links on the main landing gear were painted in an aluminum color, as were the main wheel hub covers. A good match is FS 17178

These colors were used in this manner on Mitsubishi built A6M-2 and A6M-3 aircraft.

Nakajima:

Nakajima built aircraft had the interior of the main landing gear wheel wells coated in the “Aotake” Blue Green preservative. The smaller “Crescent” shaped inner doors were also “Aotake” Blue Green on the inside portion, similar to how the “restored” Zero in this picture looks. However this restored example is wrong, since the inside of the inner doors match the outer surface colors… I’m just saying. 🙂

The outer main landing gear doors however were painted in the same color as the rest of the airframe, inside and out. The outer main gear doors should be painted in “Amber Gray” color.
The main landing gear struts were painted in a Gloss Black color.

The retracting yokes on the small inner “Crescent” shaped doors were also painted using Gloss Black.

The torque links on the main landing gear were painted in an aluminum color, as were the main wheel hub covers, exactly as the Mitsubishi aircraft were done.

Nakajima built A6M-2’s and up to the early A6M-5’s were painted in this manner.

Tail Wheel Assembly: These items were painted the same way on both Mitsubishi and Nakajima built aircraft.

The tail wheel assembly was painted “Amber Gray”.

The tail wheel well area inside the fuselage was “Aotake” protectant coating. However, this area was often covered with a removable canvas boot that was either dark green or black in color.

The Tail Hook was painted Gloss Black.

The front mounting of the hook assembly was also painted Gloss Black.

The tail hook shaft itself was either “Aotake” Blue Green or “Amber Gray”. This color difference depended on the contractor that manufactured the part.

The Imperial Japanese Navy issued a document in 1944 that was called “Kari-Kikaku 117 Shiki-Betsu Hyojun” which translates into “Provisional Standard 117 Color Norms”.

Color chips were produced to go along with the document.

A partial color chip book was recently found in Japan and can be seen here.

https://plaza.rakuten.co.jp/zerosenochibo/diary/?ctgy=30

Engine Cowlings and Cockpit Decking (areas under the rear canopy section):

These two locations were painted in a color that is referred to as “Q-1” the 3rd type… in the 117 Standard. The color consisted of 4 parts of “Carbon Black” pigment, and one part “Ultra Marine”.
The color when new looked to be Black.

However it was actually a very dark blue color that was “almost” black. It has been compared to RAF “Night”. The blue was hardly noticeable when new.

The “Blue Black” faded when exposed to ultra violet light. As it faded, the color shifted to a blue “ish” gray appearance, similar to this.


On aircraft that were severely faded, this color took on the appearance of a “Light Blue Gray”.

Check this picture out… and you will see what I mean.

*************************************************
This color was used on all Japanese Navy aircraft as an anti glare paint.
*************************************************

There have been reports that this “Blue Black” color was used on Mitsubishi built aircraft and that Nakajima planes used a typical “Flat Black” in it’s place. However this is not very likely.
The areas located under the canopy that was located behind the pilot’s seat (where the radio mast was placed) often faded to the lighter shades.
The cowlings would have been better maintained since they were removed for regular engine maintenance.

The cowlings would have most likely been repainted and would not have appeared as faded.

A good match for this “Blue Black” color is FS 25042. It also happens to be the same color that was used by the US Navy as “Dark Sea Blue”.

On A6M-2 Zeros that were painted in the overall solid color of “Amber Gray”, there were two styles of Hinomaru used.

The National markings were sometimes called “meatballs” by the Allies and were a bright red color. A close color match for the red is FS *1136.

I have left the first number off, as this is an indicator to the gloss.

A high gloss color will start out with the number #1.
A semi gloss color will start with the number #2.
Colors that are “Flat” will start off using the number #3.

One type of Hinomaru used on the A6M-2 had a small white ringed border that surrounded the red “Rising Sun”. The other style was just the solid red Hinomaru.

Mitsubishi built aircraft had the solid red style in all positions. Two were located on the side of the fuselage, while each wing panel (upper and lower) had them. Four were present on the wings.

Nakajima built aircraft had the white ringed Hinomaru on the fuselage only. The ones used on the Nakajima wings were solid red, just like the ones used on the Mitsubishi planes. This was reportedly done to assist with maintenance. According to some, there was an occasional “problem” with the interchangeability between parts on the Mitsubishi and Nakajima Zero’s. This was reportedly resolved quickly.

So the Nakajima Zero’s had the white ring on the fuselage Hinomaru, while the Mitsubishi did not.

This one is a Mitsubishi built A6M-2, based on the fuselage markings.


While these are Nakajima built machines, based on the same information.

In the next installment, I will delve into the differences between Mitsubishi and Nakajima cockpit colors, and the exterior paints that were used on each type… along with the associated color chips.

To be continued… depending on the attention this article receives.

I have a lot more color chips to show… 🙂

Enjoy !

as always,
Comments are encouraged.


25 responses to Random thoughts on Japanese colors. The Japanese A6M Zero…Part 1

  1. All very interesting and thanks, Louis.

    There are a couple of “shortcuts” you can use, paint-wise, and identifying the manufacturer.

    The Mitsubishi A6M2s were all painted gloss, and this stood up well to a saltwater environment aboard the carriers. Nakajima A6m2s were also gloss, but as with everything else between the two companies, it wasn’t quite the same color (though most of the Color Sen-Sei say it’s close enough not to worry). Tamiya released a very nice paint in the correct shade when they released their 1/32 A6M2 back in 2004.

    Tamiya’s original “IJN Green” is actually the Nakajima color, which is a blue-base green. When they released the gray-green color, they also released “IJN Green 2” which is “Mitsubishi Green,” a more green, yellow-base color. Their original “IJN Grey” is the Nakajima grey that was used on their A6M2s and in camouflaged airplanes. So far as I know, there isn’t a “Mitsubishi Grey,” and I have wondered if they didn’t just continue using their original grey-green color.

    Tamiya’s “Cockpit Green” is “Mitsubishi interior green”, you can use it on A6Ms and A5Ms. (You can also use it for British interior grey-green, it’s close enough) Nakjima’s cockpit color was as close as you can get to US “Interior Green” without being that exact color. Mitsubishi cockpits were overall their color, while Nakajima had things like the throttle quadrant and radio “black boxes” in gloss black. In both cases, the instrument panels were the interior color, not black.

    When you get to camouflaged A6M5s, it’s easy to tell which is which: a Nakajima airplane has the rear fuselage color demarcation as a curving line from the trailing edge of the wing to the leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer, while a Mitsubishi airplane has a straight line demarcation from the trailing edge of the wing to the tip of the fuselage, that passes under the horizontal stabilizer.

    So, if you use Tamiya paints, there’s the easy way to do it. If you use oil-base enamel, I suggest Xtracolor paints, which are well-researched and accurate colors. The Xtracrylix line is similar.

    Looking forward to more of this stuff, Louis. Keep up the good work.

    • Thanks Tom @tcinla

      for the very detailed response. The majority of the information you talked about in your reply will be discussed in the next installment.

      I would like to use some of the restored Zero cockpit pictures you posted a while ago in the next “episode”.

      Thanks again.

  2. now where’s that tamiya deck tan

  3. Great article I rather a thorough compilation of information otherwise found piecemeal in various sources, the most relevant the ones you provide Louis. I’ve recently bought a couple of the new Air Real Colours from AK planning to use them in a couple of kits, the first one being Hasegawa A6M2. They look to be accurate, some very similar to the old Aeromaster Warbird hues, which I always used and liked. Also thanks for giving me some peace of mind about the amount of weathering these early Zeros had, especially the engine covers 😉 Thumbs up for a true public service with this article Louis!

    • Hey Pedro @holzhamer

      Thanks for the compliments. Like you I was finding stuff in various places. The two links I provided to J.aircraft and Aviation of Japan have been the best resources so far.

      Please let us know how you like those AK colors……….. sounds interesting. I had always read good things about the old Aeromaster Warbird colors, I think they were among the first to make a Nakajima and a Mitsubishi green.

      Who knows ?? Maybe we can start posting up some more Japanese aircraft builds or even start some more “in progress” journals. That would be nice……………. 🙂

      Thanks again 🙂

  4. The acid test of any post like this is, “does it make me want to build something?” – this is a resounding “yes” – I just want to make anything Japanese. Really gets you thinking about it in a way that gets under the skin. Especially so with the metallic greeny blues. Beautiful.

    Thanks, Louis.

    ‘Liked’

    • Hello David !!! @dirtylittlefokker

      It’s always great to hear from you. I am very pleased that this article has inspired you !!!!!!!! It has been very well received, so I will be continuing the series.

      For many years to Aotake blues and greens have always captured my imagination……… There’s something about it that draws you to it. Maybe because it’s not your typical finish ?? Could be.

      I have several Japanese planes that I want to get going on……….. A certain 1/32 Hasegawa Ki-61 in Bare Metal Foil has been calling me………… as have several of the smaller 1/48 Ki-43 Oscars………. Then there’s the Ki-45 and Ki-46’s that have been inching closer to the work bench……

      We might just have to start a future “Group Build”………….

      Thanks again !!! and Happy Easter.

      • Oh, yes. We haven’t had a Japanese themed group build in iModeler…just saying.

        You can see by the comments pouring in from the great and good of iModeler that this thread has really hit a nerve. Did I mention we haven’t had a Japanese Group Build?

        Anyway, yep – having a very, very relaxed Easter. As you can see, below…

        I have to say, that first photo you posted of the Zero is a gorgeous image, I’ve just pinched it for a screen saver. Hey, have we really NEVER had a Japanese themed group build?

        • I think this article has hit a nerve indeed…………….. and that’s a good thing. What do you mean David ??? @dirtylittlefokker

          We haven’t had a Japanese themed Group Build ???

          Hmmmmmmmmmmmm. We might just have to take another look at the idea. 🙂 Sometime later once the others wrap up.

          Really ??? A Japanese Group Build ????? You don’t say ……… 🙂

          What a marvelous idea………………

          Why don’t we do a Japanese Group build ?????

          Lot’s of Aotake here…………. at least on the inside.

          That looks like a great book you’re reading………..

          Enjoy what’s left of the weekend my friend. Food for thought, and maybe another screen saver ????

          Hey ………………what about a Japanese aircraft Group build ???

          Brilliant !!!!!!!!

          • A Japanese themed GB? Really…that dog’ll hunt.

            Thanks for the images and yes, I noted that all the photos are of worn out or wrecked aircraft…you know me too well, Louis!

            We really need a Japanese Group Build, don’t you think? @yellow10 is in, I’m in, and by the looks of it, about half of iModeler would jump at this. If only some veteran iModeler with the modeling skills, organisational abilities, and who isn’t otherwise engaged in a GB, would propose the idea…

            Anyway, I am going to do some actual modeling in the next few days. The ‘Indy’ book is amazing, prep work for the ‘speed build’ (two weeks, start to finish) Trumpeter 1/350 Indianapolis I’ll be doing next month. Can’t wait.

            Mmmm. Now, where’s that Tamiya Zero…

  5. With each Japanese build, I learn something new. From the first Tam Zeroes, Raiden and Ki-84 Frank that I had built using what was known back in the early 90’s, I went with the instructions called out for back then. As the years went by more information came to light as details emerged with research, found wreckage and preserved items that some civilians had in their homes. Still as research continues seems like something new is discovered. This Louis will help a great deal and hopefully encourage more Japanese aircraft builds. There are so many lesser known yet important aircraft used by the Japanese Navy and Air Force. The Myrts, the Graces and even Emily’s will benefit. Now someone needs to produce a 48th scale Nell….

    • Agree, a Nell is long overdue in 1/48

      • gentlemen,

        @holzhamer

        @uscusn

        You know I would definitely grab up a few of them should one of the main stream companies decide to make one. Hasegawa has it in 1/72 scale, but I don’t build in that scale anymore…………. Ye Olde Eyes keep me from that !!!!

        I would LOVE to see a 1/48 “Nell”.

        It has been on my wish list of kits for many years………….. The new Fine Molds 1/48 scale Mitsubishi Ki-21 looks pretty good. I can see one of those in the collection soon.

        • Hey there Chuck, @uscusn
          I have learned so much during my past few Japanese builds. Each time I start doing research on another type of plane, I always find something new. I really enjoy doing this, as much as the building itself. I guess it’s the thrill of the chase……………..

          The internet has been a tremendous help. It’s like a huge library but with a lot more books.

          This is evolving into a science, sort of “Aviation Archaeology” if you will. Many “1 to 1 scale” restoration facilities are now striving to make their full sized aircraft rebuilds as authentic as possible. So besides it being just us model builders, there are others out there working towards the same goals.

          Like you I hope this will encourage more Japanese aircraft builds. Maybe even some of the lesser types as you mentioned. I picked up a Hasegawa E8N-1 float plane a few year ago when they first released it on the market………. until then I never heard of the type. Not only is it a float, it’s also a biplane.

          Bring on that 1/48 “Nell” ………………… 🙂 Sign me up for a few of them. They would look great sitting next to a G4M Betty in the display case.

          I also liked your idea about gathering information on model paints for Japanese aircraft. This could end up evolving into something much more significant……….

          Great idea my friend !!!!!

          Happy Easter…………….. 🙂

  6. This is a great post. I, for one, hope you post another!

  7. This is outstanding stuff Louis! As Pedro says a total public service – I will benefit fairly rapidly as I have 4 Japanese planes going through the prep stages as we speak! Thanks so much! That aside it is just plain brilliant reference material.

    I wonder if it is worth starting a group page even if you are the only one to post initially, just to keep the successive posts really well ‘at hand’. Of course, I really believe you should continue with this fantastic venture if you have the motivation and time to commit! Others who might want to take on similar expert research efforts could add threads later? As far as I can see there has been nothing done like it here on iM?

    • Paul @yellow10

      Thank you very much for the kind words. I am impressed with having 4 Japanese builds going at the same time !!! Sounds a bit like the “Iron Werks” style of building. Good for you …………….. 🙂

      I will be continuing on with this series. That’s an interesting idea about starting a Group Page. This is something to consider. I’ll talk with Martin and his staff about this to see what they have to say about it.

      I will have all of these articles linked together at the bottom of the page as part of a series, just as I did with the multiple Spitfire builds that were recently completed.

      Who knows ??? Maybe after the current Group Builds have been finalized, maybe we could start up another one dedicated to Japanese aircraft ………… I have a bunch of kits in mind as future builds. I have been eyeing my 1/48 scale Ki-43’s. I have an older Nichimo and about 4 of the Hasegawa “Oscars”.

      I’ll give you a quick guess as to which aircraft will be the subject of the next “Color” series once I have completed the A6M’s………. it rhymes with “Oscar”……….. 🙂 oops the cat’s out of the bag now……………..

      Please don’t hesitate to contact me. Thanks again my friend and hope you had a Happy Easter.

  8. Hello everyone,

    Here’s wishing that we all have a safe and happy Easter holiday weekend.

    Judging by the tremendous response, I will be continuing this series.

    There has been a little “behind the scenes” work going on, so that we can bring you even more info and pictures on the subject of Japanese aircraft. This could be expanding into an even larger idea, to include other things like specific model paint colors that are available for Japanese planes.

    There has even been talk about a “possible” future Group Build for Japanese aircraft. Time will tell………….

    I will be corresponding with Martin and his staff, to get his blessing and thoughts for these additional ideas. This could end up being larger than I ever originally planned.

    I will start working on the next installment for the A6M Zero.

    Once it is finished, I will start posting about the Ki-43 Oscar next……………..

    Thank you very much for the wonderful response, and please stay tuned for another article.

    Take care,
    Louis

  9. Top notch information , Louis !
    We modelers have come a long way thanks to researchers such as you.
    I still think the old Aurora box top Zero is eye catching though. I’ve thought of building my Hasegawa Zero with this paint scheme, just for old times sakes.

    1 attached image. Click to enlarge.

    • Hello Jay, @SSgt

      We have really come a long way………… Your Aurora Zero box art is a prime example. I remember building my Aurora FW-190 as a kid. It had an all “Black” plane with a solid “Yellow” nose going from memory. So I went online and found a picture of the box art from my old kit…………..

      I say build your Zero any way you want to …………….. it’s yours so what ever floats your boat. Just have some fun doing it.

      I didn’t physically do the research for the articles. All I did was gather it together from my notes over the past few years. Those guys who did the research deserve the credit.

      Thank you for the kind words. 🙂

  10. Another great post Louis
    From a readers point of view and someone not that familiar with Japanese aircraft, nice to be able to take advantage of all that research you have accumulated over the years.
    Thanks particularly for the Aotake explanation – fascinating – did not know that.
    Nice focus on the Zero/single aircraft idea too – eliminates many of the rabbit holes for us newcomers to the field to get lost in.
    Looking forward to the next installment !

    • Thanks David, @davem

      I sincerely appreciate the compliment. The Aotake could have been any various shades of green, blue, or even yellow !!! It was used as a preservative, and was actually better than the zinc chromate used by the Allies as far as the protection properties went.

      I remember reading about when these aircraft restorers were searching the jungles of Asia and the Pacific Islands during the late 1960’s and 1970’s.

      They said something that sounded a little like this:

      “When we came across an old derelict airframe, and if it was still mostly intact, it was Japanese. The American planes simply crumbled away over time. The coating material used by the Japanese was superior to our own means.”

      There are a lot of “Rabbit Holes” to watch out for…………. Please stay tuned for a future article “Part 2” on the Zero colors. I think it was a good choice to stay focused on a single type with each installment. This subject can be very confusing…………….. it still is for me on occasion too.

      Thanks again !!!

  11. Good stuff Louis. Like you I bounce between the two sites looking for info and now with your help its in one location. Is there a place on this site site strictly for reference material? It would be great to have everything you post in the same thread if possible. On the subject of paints, it would be nice to see Tamiya modernize their colours. I sent them an email a few months ago about this and their reply was they are always upgrading and adding new colours but so far I have only seen the three new(?) RAF colours for Day Fighters

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