Mid-air collision at Wings over Dallas show
I don't want to say anything definitively but that sure looks an awful lot like "Texas Raiders". The fact that one report says they were "booking rides" on the B-17 lends a bit of extra evidence toward that conclusion.
How horrible!
https://www.iheart.com/content/2022-11-12-watch-planes-collide-in-mid-air-during-dallas-airshow/
WARNING: This has video that is GRAPHIC of the crash:
UPDATE: the CAF has confirmed it is Texas Raiders. The P-63 was the one in the Houston wing.
Yikes that is horrible hear.
I’ve just seen coverage on the UK news, it looks terrible.
Just watched the video, how sad considering the loss of life. Form the angle of the video of the collision, it looks like the pilot of the P-63 may have misjudged his turning radius or may not have seen the B-17until the last moment and too late to react, just speculation.
Yup, it was "Texas Raiders" based in Conroe, TX. Looks, from various angles) like a perfect "pursuit curve" until impact with no attempt to break off the attack...but don't know why. Just my two bits...
If you look at a P-63, the cockpit is right over the wing cutting off visibility of anything "under" the airplane from about 1-2 o'clock on the right to 10-11 o'clock on the left - add in the long nose and there is not a lot of visibility forward and down. Put the airplane in a bank about twice a standard rate turn, and he never saw the B-17. Add in he turned "wide" - not as tight as the other two - and there probably wasn't enough time to say "holy sht!" from the moment he spotted the B-17 to impact. It looks like he hit right above the radio compartment, which broke the fuselage in half. They usually have 6-8 passengers aboard, and the last time I was around a passenger hauling B-17 (Collings Foundation 909), there were probably 3-4 in that radio compartment.
Just horrid no matter how you think of it.
The P-63 wasn't in tight on his wing but was following a P-51 in a loose formation. I would assume he had his eye on him in the first place. Yeah, even if he was looking for him he would never have seen Texas Raiders though. I'm just wondering who got into the wrong airspace. At EAA the circuits a clearly defined in the pre show breifing. I'm just amazed it happened as I believe everyone in this show had to go through FAST sessions at some point this show season.
I'm a bit angry at news outlets that feel the need to bring up "the age of the aircraft" as if it had anything to do with what happened. In any case even though these were originally built in the 40's most material in them is as new as when the restoration had taken place.
Josh, Couldn't agree with you more. Just watched an "aviation lawyer" on a Houston news channel complain about the ages of the aicraft and how they don't carry modern cockpit devices like cockpit voice recorders or flight control recorders, and how he would NEVER fly in one of THOSE airplanes! The same guy probably owns a 57 Vette. Automatic.
David, @adamcda13
haha. Or maybe he owns an electric Toyota Prius because he can't drive a stick shift car with a big block V-8 under the hood.
Horrible.
Terrible news this morning.
So incredibly sad to see this sort of thing happen, my heart goes out to all those affected by this tragedy.
This is such a great tragedy. My heart goes out to the families who have lost their relatives in this horrific incident. The King Cobra obviously had the B-17 in a blind spot.
This sucks. Last summer went to an airshow in Gardner, KS, and saw this B-17, took a bunch of pictures. At the end of the show went for a ride in the TBM, and took this pic of it. From other sources I've read, the P-63 was the P-63F, the tall tailed version which I'm pretty sure was the only one left. My thoughts go out to the families and friends of the aircrews.
1 attached image. Click to enlarge.
It's shocking and sad on many levels. Its seems that historic aircraft ,pilots and passengers are lost every other year due to human error. How many B-17s and P-63 are left flying? Rare and endangered historical artifacts seem to get lost for entertainment and for educational purposes. These aircraft are listed as experimental and when you buy a ride you sign a waiver. More emphasis on safety and structure in operating these aircraft need to be done.
Heard this tragic news, shocking really. RIP to all passengers and crews.
I hope they are not flying these airplanes "with passengers" during an "airshow", but maybe that's part of the problem. Maybe the B-17 strayed off course and into the show airbox? Who knows. It's just horrible to see something like this and my heart goes out to the loved ones. Unfortunately, I can't seem to separate the loss of life from the loss of the aircraft. These airplanes are national treasures. Maybe it's time to set them aside so that my grandchildren can see them in all their glory...instead of seeing them as a pile of burned debris.
The P-63 was the one-of-a-kind P-63F (tall vertical fin/rudder). I actually sat in it once 40 years ago when it was in California. I remember seeing it 45 years ago at the Mojave Air Races, scaring the daylights out of us out on the pylons with the pilot flying the course with the left wingtip about 20 feet off the ground. He never got called for cutting a pylon, that's for sure.
Tom, here is an interview from YouTube with the P-63 pilot at OSH earlier this year...
I love warbirds and have flown in quite a few. But I am starting to reconsider if these aircraft should be flying, especially with paying passengers. I have paid for numerous rides but I think I will no longer do so.
The planes (or perceived age of them) had nothing to do with what happened. 100% human error. Just like the P-51 entanglement at Oshkosh in 2007. Stang was a vintage plane but Jerry Beck's P-51 was brand new built from plans. (Minus a few things like the engine and landing gear.) Either way the same result would've occured had both planes been built yesterday.
Josh Patterson (@jpatt1000)
I agree with you 100 percent here. The perceived age of the aircraft had absolutely nothing to do with this.
Right now we should all consider the victims, their friends, and the families. God rest their souls.
Most of these "old airplanes" we are privileged to see flying, are rebuilt with mostly all new metal, hydraulics, wiring, avionics, (and so on) with things like the data plates still being original...
What we see flying are new rebuilds of old planes that are maintained and flown with the utmost due care. What happens to mess things up is when we factor in the human factor. We are all human and we do make mistakes occasionally. I have yet to meet anyone who is perfect.
Planes can be (and some war birds have been), lost while parked on static display in a hangar due to fires too. Buildings burn more often than mid air collisions occur.
Bad things do happen, and unfortunately for everyone involved here, this is tragic.
The truth will eventually come out after the investigation is done and all of the facts are reviewed. Until then it seems we are all merely speculating about what "could" have happened.
This is a double edged sword, and caution must be heeded.
Well said.
Was just going through a stack of pictures (real paper ones) and found several with me and a 3 year old riding on my shoulders. Several pics featured "Texas Raiders". What a loss.
I have been saying for a LONG time. These priceless artifacts should be grounded. Or at least if you are going to fly them fly them by themselves, VERY carefully. There is just no need for the type of thing that resulted in yesterday's horror. Just saw a vid of a P-40 being thrown around with abandon, looping and rolling. Got to be crazy.
Rest in peace, to those who perished yesterday. For God's sake let them be the last.
Sad news. P-63 was the probably last survived machine. I don't like King Cobra (beceuse of most of them was send to russia). But looses was terrible. Peoples, and planes.
This is an early analysis of what happened and it will take a year or more for the Feds to come up with a report.