Hasegawa N1K2-J Shiden Kai (George) 1/32

Started by Colin Gomez · 100 · 3 years ago
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    Colin Gomez said 3 years, 7 months ago:

    Just a quick update to explain something else potentially useful to would-be "riveteers". I couldn't find a complete diagram of the rivet patterns for the N1K2-J on the Internet. As mentioned, I was looking at actual museum birds and so far using available side views only to do the fuselage. Not wanting to spend $80 Can on a Japanese monograph on the Shiden Kai on Ebay (which may or may not have the plans with rivwets on the wings), I kept searching for something free. I found just what i needed by looking at video walk around/histories of the Shiden Kai on Youtube. I was able to freeze images and take screen shots of plans included in these videos.

    I then enlarged parts and was able to draw out the rivet pattern on one of the templates I created earlier. A couple of hours work saved me 80 bucks. I will now pencil in the patterns on the wings of the model before getting to work with the riveter. I hope this isn't too boring but I actually find it quite fun to work this stuff out. Back to work.

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    Spiros Pendedekas said 3 years, 7 months ago:

    Hi Colin @coling!
    I am amazed by your creativity to resolve this!
    Also amazed by the level of detail you are putting on the Shiden.
    This is going to be -another Colin Gomez - super build!

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    Colin Gomez said 3 years, 7 months ago:

    Thanks for your kind response Spiros. I have had to go at this slowly as I find riveting a mental and physical challenge (mental in psyching myself up for the long task and handling mistakes along the way). It will take me about a week to get this done, I think, working in stages. The rest of the construction will be very fast as it is largely done already. I have been reviewing more stuff on chipping, including some interesting video commentary against the salt method as unrealistic. l I may go for a sponge technique instead, which will allow me to have more realistic fading of paint in addition to simple paint loss. Hopefully proceeding with caution and more experiments won't make this a never ending project.

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    Jeremy Millan said 3 years, 7 months ago:

    Thank you for the riveting tutorial! Looks great so far. Looks like a lot of work though

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    Colin Gomez said 3 years, 7 months ago:

    Thanks for your response, Jeremy. I remembered that you expressed interest in learning the technique, so that is one reason I have been documenting this. You are right that it takes a lot of work. It's all about keeping up a rhythm and streamlining your technique as you go. I will be posting more pics soon on how I do it. It may not be everyone's approach, but it works for me.

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    Colin Gomez said 3 years, 7 months ago:

    Hi Guys. I just thought I'd post a few explanatory pics on some of the trickier aspects of "riveteering". First up, the challenge of lining up rows of rivets done on one side of the fuselage with rows on the other. There are 25 rows (!) of vertical rivets aft of the wing root on each side the Shiden Kai. They are mostly in groups of 3 ending halfway up the fuselage on each side. The third line continues all the way up and over the top to meet the same line on the other side. I studied drawings for a heck of a long time before I figured out how to do this on the Hasegawa model. I also looked at museum birds to double check the pattern in the plans.

    I was then very careful with the riveter to keep the right spacing and follow the models panel lines correctly (keeping every line vertically plumb). The pics show the strips of masking tape I used to mark where I would later lay Dymo tape to run the riveter over the complex curve of the fuselage spine. It took hours of work to fit each Dymo tape guide and cut the rivets but I was successful in getting it all to line up (a testimony to earlier work measuring). Next, some pics of how to use Dymo tape. I added some horizontal lines cross cutting the vertical ones. Pics show how long these lines are. I measure, mark them with masking tape and then pencil them in. I then lay a strip of Dymo tape for whichever side gives it firmer anchoring. It's a long piece in this case so I used a second piece to anchor it from behind so that it doesn't slip as the cutting wheel runs along it. I also put a double thick strip of masking tape at each end to further anchor it and stop the cutting wheel from engraving rivets past the end of the line. You can see the size of the gap I leave between the engraved panel line and the edge of the tape - just enough for the wheel to avoid the groove.

    The third process to explain is how to use the rivet pattern accurately on the model through pragmatic measuring techniques. The next pics show the long process of transferring a drawing of the rivet pattern to the wing of the model. I first rough up the surface of the plastic overall with some 1500 grit sandpaper so that my pencil lines will show up.

    I then plan the pattern by drawing the lines that run along engraved lines common to both the model and the plan. I then measure the spaces between these major lines on the model and count how many rows are indicated between the major panel lines on the drawing. Dividing the measured width of a major panel by this number yields the required gap between rows of rivets running along bulkheads. Doing this for just one simple rectangular panel revealed the spacing of the bulkheads and rivet lines for more than half the wing (7.6 mm in this case). As I drew these on, I was pleased to see how well key lines continued to line up with Hasegawa's panel lines along the way. BTW, I cut a custom ruler from thick styrene which was sightly narrower than 7.6 mm. This allowed me to quickly draw lines and check their spacing all along the wing (and later redraw them as handling rubbed the pencil off in places). I did a similar sequence of measuring for the rivets matching stringers along the length of the wing (spanwise). These are very long lines and have to line up as well as converge in some places towards the wingtips. Again, by keeping a careful count of how many there should be and also following panel lines, it all comes together accurately. I wouldn't like to call myself a "rivet counter" but I am a rivet line counter (or stringer counter) because if you don't follow the plan, it doesn't look right. Anyway, it will be a lot easier for the port wing since it is just a mirror image of the almost completely planned starboard wing.

    I hope this helps someone. I am floored when other modelers casually add a statement at the end of an article on a model they completed to say "Oh, by the way, I riveted the whole model" without explaining how much work this entails. I guess its a Zen approach and my hat is off to them. Maybe it's just me but find it hard to figure out how to do this other than by a monumental amount of work. Happy modeling. Comments and questions welcome.

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    Erik GjΓΈrup said 3 years, 7 months ago:

    Great tutorial Colin (@coling), well done!

    I think I'll have to stick with smaller scale for now, as the test of my patience by the work involved in such a massive amount of riveting would end in tears, I'm sure πŸ™‚

    I have always wondered if the Dymo-tape will leave a sticky residue? Do you de-tack, or does the adhesive come off just fine?

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    Spiros Pendedekas said 3 years, 7 months ago:

    Hi Colin @coling.
    This was a great tutorial, the riveting itself being a triumph of patience, persistence and skill.
    My hat is off to you, Sir!

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    Louis Gardner said 3 years, 7 months ago:

    Colin, @coling

    This is spectacular work ! It's been a while since I have stopped by to leave a comment. You have accomplished quite a lot since my last visit.

    As far as chipping, this is how I did one of my kits years ago... and it somehow made it into the Fine Scale modeler magazine.

    Here's a link to the Ki-84 I'm talking about.

    1/48 Tamiya 61013 Nakajima Ki-84-1A Hayate (Frank)
    How I did mine was first I sprayed on a base of Model Master "Metalizer" and then polished it to a very high shine. Once I was satisfied with the base, I sprayed on the dark green upper color. I was originally going to simply pick away small sections using a toothpick to reveal the bare metal under the green... but things changed. Following this step, I sprayed on the yellow leading edge wing markings. As I was removing the tape, a good chunk of the dark green paint came up with the tape. At first I thought it was a horrible problem... Then the idea came to me to use masking tape and randomly use it to pull up even more of the paint in high traffic areas. So that's exactly what I did. Then I applied the decals and gave it a coat of dull flat clear. Following that, I went back and again took tape to the surface. This pulled up some of the clear and exposed fresh bare metal. So it gave the illusion that some of the paint was freshly chipped, while the other places had been chipped for a while and minor oxidation had started to the bare aluminum surfaces. I couldn't have been more pleased with the results. They look realistic. Please look at the photos in the article and judge for yourself. This next photo shows what I'm trying to describe. In some places on the model, the paint has lifted and curled along the edges, just as real paint would do. These curled edges were left in place where they occurred. It all happened randomly, and is exactly how it would be on the real plane. I don't know it you can still get the Metallizer, as it has been discontinued. But you should be able to use some sort of a metallic color as your base. You could even experiment with it and see if this is something you might consider doing with your Ki-84. Hope this helps you my friend. I did this about 20 years ago... πŸ™‚ Your information on how to do rivets is incredible ! Thank you VERY much for sharing this advice. It looks tedious and time consuming... so in other words it's perfect.
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    Colin Gomez said 3 years, 6 months ago:

    Thanks, Erik. Sorry to hear that I may have discouraged you from the whole riveting thing. I will probably feel happier about the effort after the model is finished. I will also have a clear idea of how long it takes and how to speed things up. I am already thinking of doing another 1/32 Hasegawa FW-190A and FW-190D-9 in the near future, the riveting is so much less complicated on these ( I did the FW-190 years ago, as I mentioned/illustrated earlier in the GB article). Apart from having flatter fuselage sides, the 190's rivets appear to have been puttied over in places, so you don't have so much to fill in between panel lines, especially on the fuselage. So, even with my grumbling, I will not be giving up on the whole process.

    In answer to your question, the Dymo tape leaves no significant residue. I have checked this visually and by running my finger over the surface. I also had no problems using it on my FW-190 ten years ago, when the tape was newer. The glue on the back of a strip dries up in the air almost immediately. The only effect of the glue is to lift the penciled in lines and smudges adjacent to the line you are working on. I am now cutting the strips in half along their length to minimize this and also cut down on waste (I have used a whole roll of Dymo tape for the fuselage and one almost complete wing).

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    Colin Gomez said 3 years, 6 months ago:

    Thanks for your encouragement, Spiros. I start each modeling day or evening with a strong cup of coffee and soldier on.

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    Colin Gomez said 3 years, 6 months ago:

    Thanks for the detailed reply and great tips, Louis. That is impressive that your work was published in FSM! I may downplay my approach to chipping on this model after all. I have a Ki.84 to do in the future, however and may go to town on that. For the Shiden Kai I want to get a combination of paint fading as well as paint loss but only in limited places. To do that I may start with a sponge method on the wing root and very small areas of exposed metal inside that. I did something like what you did with an undercoat of Rub n Buff and green Tamiya acrylic over top on an experimental panel. The green flaked off in chunks, as you demonstrate. The problem was how to limit and control this because the whole surface was very fragile. I guess your overspray/flat clear sealer may have stabilized that. I didn't attempt it.

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    Colin Gomez said 3 years, 6 months ago:

    Hey guys. Can anyone tell me how to do the labeling of pics that I see with your articles (with boxes with text and arrows/lines inside the pics)? This would really help me to explain things.

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    Colin Gomez said 3 years, 6 months ago:

    First of all thanks again for the tutorial on adding labels, Spiros. Here is my update on the pimply Shiden Kai. I have done all major riveting on the topside, as shown.

    . I had to fill gaps left by Hasegawa inserts before I did any underwing riveting. I finally got all this done and set to work with Rosie the Riveter. However, I stopped short on one large panel for each wing, which museum pics seem to show was not riveted. What do you think? Would you concur with my decision to leave the large (access?) panel smooth? I have included a few more pics of the underside of the wings with leading edge rivets done and penciled-in rivet lines over the panels in question. The rows for stringers were trickier underneath than topside and I had to fix a major line on each side. There is smudging of pencil and the darkened ghosts of deleted lines, but these will disappear under paint. I left the rear underside of the fuselage unriveted because I have to join the wing on and this will require fairly major filling, sanding and rescribing first. This is the exciting stage because I will install the detailed cockpit before buttoning things up. I did most of the riveting in advance because I didn't want to damage cockpit details that stick out a bit. Now I will need to risk that to get on with construction.

    So, you can see now that this process can actually be completed. I hope you like it as modeling work worth considering. Please let me know your opinion on the raised panel under each wing. I think maybe it should be left clean like the access door for the guns on top (much clearer the case in plans). Comments welcome.

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    Louis Gardner said 3 years, 6 months ago:

    Colin, @coling
    I see you have mastered adding notes to your pictures. This is a very nice addition to your already great postings. It makes it much better I think.

    As far as leaving the large panel bare and free of rivets, I think I would leave it as is. My understanding is this area was where the wing fuel tanks were located. Chances are this area was left smooth so the access panel could be removed as one piece in case the tanks were damaged. This would also make sense not to have a rivet head protruding inside the wing, as it could potentially cause a leak.

    I like all of the extra work you have done so far with adding these additional rivets. In particluar, the photo where you posted a picture of the upper right hand tail section, it looks like you have the rivets spaced exactly as the real plane did. It looks very good !

    Now I use a "Rosie the Riveter" tool, and I have wondered how I made it so long without one... I started using it first on the Monogram 1/48 scale B-24J Liberator.

    Personally I would leave the large panel alone as is and not add anything there. I think this was indeed the fuel tank location and this is where the wing tanks were located. I'm not 100% sure about it, but I would venture to say I'm 85% positive ... πŸ™‚
    Thanks for posting another great update. Your posts are even better now that you have included additional notes to each picture. This is a very nice feature we have on Imodeler.