Two 1/32 scale Revell of Germany P-51-D5 Mustang builds. One as ”Cripes a Mighty 3rd” and ”LOU IV”

Started by Louis Gardner · 366 · 8 months ago
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    Spiros Pendedekas said 1 year, 11 months ago:

    Fantastic, my friend @lgardner! Sounding repetitive, but, what I see in every post is pure perfection! Eagerly waiting for your progress!

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    John vd Biggelaar said 1 year, 11 months ago:

    A great step once more, Louis @lgardner
    All the research and your skills will finally make these builds perfect copies.

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    George R Blair Jr said 1 year, 11 months ago:

    Louis (@lgardner): Thanks for posting the RatoModeling site. I just took a look and there is a lot of good info. I am still amazed in how the Molotow looks after it is sprayed on. I was just reading an article on P-51s that was talking about how the flaps would droop after the hydraulic pressure would bleed off on the ground. Like you were saying, finding a nearby hobby shop has become a problem. I had lived in San Antonio for almost 30 years until last January. I remember there were 4 or 5 hobby stores for most of the time, but only 1 1/2 hobby stores when we left. So I move north of Austin. The nearest hobby store is an hour away, and the next nearest is almost 2 hours away. The nearest store sells mainly consignments, but usually has the paint and weathering products I need. The farther store is much more full-service, but you have to fight 2 hours of traffic (one way) to get there. Oh well. You do what you can to help the stores.

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    Stephen W Towle said 1 year, 11 months ago:

    Louis,

    "I actually think the wing root filets could possibly have been painted using a Black paint. It's also possible this location was painted using a brush. This would explain the sharp edges we see on the sides of the fuselage."

    For me its one of those slap your forehead moments. Your absolutely right about the Black paint on the wing fillet. Wing walk ways where painted black on many aircraft in WWII. I think an airbrush and perhaps a brush where both used to apply paint. Now to add more controversy, look at the before and after photos of LOUI with the leading edge wing stamped piece with paint and the photo after. The photo taken on the ground shows that wing stamped piece with paint and just aft of that stamping looks like a blob of O.D.. Its not black. Now look at the inflight photo with the new wing stamped piece. Look aft of the that bright aluminum there is a Black diagonal line that doesn't follow the curvature of the wing but, looks like it starts from the new piece and travels towards the flap. This is very esoteric boarding on theater of the absurd. However, having watched some of the Smithsonian programing on Youtube you get a feel for what they go through to restore artifacts, research, and develop their techniques in getting things right. They also, consult many experts in there related fields. Often projects take years to restore in order to make a artifact look and feel what it was in its time period.

    Often modelers focus on the aircraft and its pilot as inspiration however, a team of individuals and support crews, mechanics, sheet metal workers, riggers, and what have you are represented in subtle ways on A/C. Ergo, that is what your modeling.

    2 attached images. Click to enlarge.

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    Louis Gardner said 1 year, 11 months ago:

    Spiros Pendedekas (@fiveten)
    Thanks again for stopping by and commenting on these two Mustangs. Your Tamiya Corsair looks very nice, and I just left you a compliment over there. Please stay tuned as I have another update coming up next.

    John vd Biggelaar (@johnb)
    Thank you very much for the kind words. For me, the research is just as much fun as the building itself.

    George R Blair Jr (@gblair)
    Rato has a very good modeling website. He has spent countless hours on documenting a lot of things, especially colors that were used on P-40's, Corsairs and RAF aircraft. It's definitely worth digging around on his site. He has a great pictorial on how he models stressed / wrinkled aircraft sheet metal, the "oil can effect" I believe it was called. He has posted a Japanese aircraft where it had a bare metal finish, combined with the stressed skin on the exterior and it's absolutely stunning.

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    Louis Gardner said 1 year, 11 months ago:

    Stephen W Towle (@stephen-w-towle)
    You brought attention to something that I couldn't figure out. Now I think I might have stumbled upon a logical explanation thanks to your help. This is much along the same lines as the Smithsonian does, with team work. Thank you.

    If you take a close look at the area you described, at the wing root:

    There's a different color that is somewhat triangular in shape, just as you described. It is more visible in the early picture, not so much later on after the leading edge wing filet as replaced or polished.

    It's now so apparent in the earlier photo, once I knew to look there.

    It's possible this was remnants of the original Dark Green color that was used to camouflage the upper wing and tail surfaces.



    Once the D Day Invasion stripes were added, then painted over, I think they used a Dark Blue color that we can see in the Dana Bell photos. This Dark Blue is semi transparent, because we can see a slight difference in color that lines up nicely with where the Invasion Stripes would have been.

    I recently found this picture online too. It shows "LOU IV" with Invasion Stripes. It also shows the top of the nose anti glare panel too. You can see how the scalloped paint has evolved along the wing root too. The pattern doesn't seem to completely line up with the later photos.

    This early scalloping could actually be a Dark Green / possible OD Green in color. Later on they could have came back using Black to paint over this location at the wing root.

    Just as you mentioned previously, there are likely several different shades of Dark Green in use. This is due to the things we mentioned about UV exposure, different paint batches and so on.


    I saw where they have used a computer to approximate the different color areas. Somewhere I have another picture like this one that shows how the fuselage code letters "E2" were the same as the wing root / walk way in the later pictures.

    Because of this, I think the wing root / walk area is likely Black in the time frame thaat I am building the plane, as it looked with the D Day stripes painted over... If I can locate the picture I will post it up.


    Here's a picture that shows the other side of the plane, so we can get a good idea of how it looked like too. Notice that it also has the polished wing filet at the leading edge of the wing.
    Thanks for your help, and I hope you continue with your thoughts and comments.

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    Stephen W Towle said 1 year, 11 months ago:

    Yeah, you hit the nail on the head with the red dot. (I can't reproduce it) That blob is O.D. or RAF Green. More like some very faded O.D. next to the leading edge wing root. It may account for seeing that black diagonal line next to that O.D.. The angle of the shot may make that line or could they have painted in a declamation line/straight edge?
    The starboard side of the a/c has black wing fillets. Note the breather tube just below the litter "A" has oil streaking down the fuselage some 3 or 4 ft.

    Note the wings have the same paint arrangement as WR-P. There seems to be some gloss paint used to cover the invasion stripes on LOU IV.

    I've come across another site that basically has done the same thing as what is being done here. However, that Blue paint may extend as far back to the horizontal stabs. Meeting where the vertical tail surfaces and the stabs come together.

    2 attached images. Click to enlarge.

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    Stephen W Towle said 1 year, 11 months ago:

    Louis,

    I believe that LOU III in the photo is a P-51 B or C. Note the numbers and the wind screen has a horizontal cross member with a glass insert. Its an earlier bird.

    2 attached images. Click to enlarge.

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    Louis Gardner said 1 year, 11 months ago:

    Stephen W Towle (@stephen-w-towle)
    Good catch ! It's definitely not the same plane... I just took another look at the wing fillet scallops and I noticed the name was "LOU III" and not Lou 4 as you pointed out. I was so wrapped up at seeing the invasions stripes that I didn't even notice the different name. A classic case of not being able to see the forest for all of the trees... Tunnel vision at it's best and definitely my bad.

    Your absolutely right about it being an earlier B or C model. The windscreen is different from what was used on the D model.


    In one of the Dana Bell color pictures I posted earlier, it does indeed look as if the Dark Blue color does go on top of the fuselage, to the area just ahead of the horizontal stabilizer. It also appears as if the radio antennae is painted the same color Dark Blue.

    I'm not 100 percent sure the Dark Blue is carried up as far on the vertical fin as depicted here. I think the Dark Blue might actually stop at the base, just ahead of the horizontal. I think the Dark Green picks up there, and continues on to cover the rest of the rudder and fin.

    I will try enlarging this picture on my computer to see if I can pick it up better, to make a final determination. Please fell free to do the same if you don't mind. We can compare notes and come up with a good solution.

    You are on a roll my friend. Please keep it up. This is how we get the most accurate version we can. As the old saying goes, there's no "I" in team work.

    Thanks again.

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    Louis Gardner said 1 year, 11 months ago:

    Stephen W Towle (@stephen-w-towle)
    Here's the same picture, but without the lines on it to show where the colors start and stop.


    I zoomed in on this one, and it does indeed seem to appear as if the illustration lines are spot on. It's possible the Dark Blue did in fact carry on up and include part of the fin as well.

    I found the picture I had stored on my computer. This has the various different colors assigned a number, and a good "guesstimate" of what they might be. This is the photo I mentioned earlier in a previous post about the wing root / walk area possibly being painted Black.

    The one number assigned as "#3" is listed as a "Light Blue". This one is most likely not a Light Blue, but instead actually a result of the Sky's reflection on the stainless steel exhaust panel that is incorporated as part of the engine covers.

    Of interest here is the wing mounted MG cover is also indicated as a #3 color. This leads me to think it might actually be a bare metal replacement panel, that was not yet painted. It could be a new part, an original part from "LOU IV" that was stripped of paint / cleaned / polished, or a part that was scavenged from another "parts" Mustang.


    This MG leading edge cover is also a different color from what the surrounding Invasion Stripes are, when viewed from below.

    In the photo shown above, the polished wing filet at the leading edge of the wing (where it joins the fuselage), is also a similar color, when viewed from various angles.


    The color listed as #4 is in reference to the color of the wing tip. I have read where it was possible this area could have been painted in a shade of Blue. Here is a photo of "Tika IV" and it has a Darker Bluish Green colored wing tip. The tips of the vertical fin and horizontal stabilizers are also this same color.

    "Tika IV" is from the same 361st Fighter Group as "LOU IV" was, only it's from a different Squadron (the 374th Fighter Squadron), and it has the radio call letters 'B7", instead of "E2" which was for the 375th Fighter Squadron where "LOU IV" came from.

    One other neat thing about this color picture of Tika IV, is that you can clearly see how the stainless steel panels on the engine covers near the exhaust look identical to the small triangular section on "LOU IV", the section labeled as #3 in the previous photos shown above.


    This photo shows the wing root area could have indeed been a Black color as mentioned above.

    With this stuff posted, I want to bring everyone up to date about what was accomplished today on "Cripes-A-Mighty III".

    Please stay tuned for another update. Thanks !

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    Louis Gardner said 1 year, 11 months ago:

    Today I managed to get some work done on Cripes A Mighty. Here’s a few pictures of the progress. Please follow along and I’ll explain what is happening.





    I used some pictures I personally took from various full scale Mustangs, showing how the brake lines were routed on the main landing gear struts. I made a brake line based on these photos and installed it on the strut. I used several wraps of bare metal foil to secure the "metal" portion of the brake line to the strut. This represents a hose clamp part that is used on the real plane for the same purpose.




    Here are some of the Mustang landing gear photos I personally took over the past years.


    The landing gear door braces were glued in position and painted appropriately.
    The outer gear door was installed next.

    Once the door mounting strut had dried sufficiently, I glued the outer door in place. One LG strut down, and one more to go.


    I glued the completed landing gear assembly in place permanently. It’s looking good !


    Next the ailerons were covered with foil and then glued in position too. Now the wing is complete and I’m almost happy with the way it’s looking now. As luck would have it, I managed to get a little bit of glue on the top side of the wing, just ahead of the aileron. I will have to carefully touch up the aluminum paint here.

    Then I will really be happy, as long as I don't make things worse in the process.



    The inner clam shell hydraulic cylinders were glued in place. Next I added the inner clam shell doors. These doors, along with the flaps would drop once the engine was shut down and the hydraulic pressure bled off.

    Ironically on the earlier Allison powered Mustangs these doors didn’t drop after engine shut down. I don’t think that the flaps also dropped either, (once the engine was stopped), on the Allison Mustangs but I’m not 100 percent certain about that.


    Finally I removed the liquid masking over the signaling lights.

    I have to bend and install the brake line on the other side next.



    This is what the Mustang looks like now.

    It’s starting to look more like a Mustang every day.

    As always comments are encouraged. Thanks for stopping by. I hope to have another installment tomorrow.

    Good night.

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    Spiros Pendedekas said 1 year, 11 months ago:

    Amazing attention to detail, my friend @lgardner!
    Looking stunning standing on her feet!

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    John vd Biggelaar said 1 year, 11 months ago:

    Great work done on the landing gear, Louis @lgardner
    The brake lines do look very realistic.
    Nice way to let the struts dry sufficiently before applying the full weight on them.

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    Louis Gardner said 1 year, 11 months ago:

    Spiros Pendedekas (@fiveten)
    Thanks my friend. Today I finished up the other main gear strut and installed it. I took some pictures of it standing up on it's own and will be posting them up soon. So please stay tuned.

    John vd Biggelaar (@johnb)
    Thanks John ! I tried to duplicate the exact routing as the real brake lines are done. Today I finished up the other side. Having these stands is perfect for installing landing gear. It really does help a lot.

    Today I made more progress on "Cripes-A-Mighty III". I also made another observation on the MG panel on "LOU IV". I will be posting this up next, so please stay tuned.

    Here we are at 299 posts on this build journal.

    Number 300 is coming up next. Thanks everyone.

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    Louis Gardner said 1 year, 11 months ago:

    Wow. Here we are at 300 postings for this build journal.
    I wanted to share with you these pictures I had stored for a while on our home computer.


    This is a picture of "LOU IV" before the majority of the nose was painted in Yellow. This is a great picture, because it shows how the colors on "LOU IV" changed / evolved over time.

    Here we can see several things that are not the same in the last set of color photos that Dana Bell analyzed.

    First off, if we look at the wing root, the color at this time appears to be a Darker Green. It's definitely not as dark as it is in the color pictures. It actually looks as if it might be a similar color as what we see on the anti glare panel just ahead of the cockpit. We know that color is a shade of Olive Drab as this is how these aircraft were delivered from the factory when new.

    Going a little bit farther forward, and we can see the wing filet at the leading edge of the wing is still partially camouflaged, and not stripped of paint and / or polished, or possibly even replaced. The camouflage color on this panel is just barely visible over the top of the wing.

    Going further back to the vertical fin, it looks as if the Dark Green color we see on the rudder and fin actually extends up to where the leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer is located. I am still not certain if this is a feature that we can see on the last incarnation of "LOU IV" in the color pictures. So the jury is still out on this color usage on the vertical fin.

    It's also possible that more Dark Blue was applied to the fin at a later date.

    I would like to hear your thoughts on this.

    Lastly, we can see a slightly darker area that is visible on the side of the fuselage, just above the "2" and to the left side of the US insignia "Star and Bar". I think I have a plausible explanation for this.

    This is likely due to accidentally spilling fuel on the fuselage during the refueling process. There is a fuel filler cap located here in this area, and it's used to fill the gas tank located behind the pilot's seat.


    Here's another picture of the same aircraft "LOU IV". This time it's a few weeks later in the aircraft's service life. Here we can see how the nose has now been painted Yellow on the majority of the structure.

    We can also see the wing fillet panel has been stripped of paint, or replaced with a part that is polished more, or simply has spent less time exposed to the elements and is therefore more shiny and looks fairly new.

    Just behind this panel, we can now see how the wing root area now appears to have been painted using Black paint. It now closely matches the fuselage radio codes "E2*C".

    Here again we can see the effects of more fuel spilled on the fuselage. Notice the darkness extends onto the US insignia "Star and Bar".

    I believe this area was likely painted a Dark Blue, used to cover the upper portions of the D Day Invasion Stripes.

    The wings were likely painted in the same manner, using a Dark Blue to cover the upper wing D Day Stripes.

    Lastly, we can see how the wing mounted MG cover appears to be a lighter shade. I think this panel was replaced, using a new one or possibly cleaned up and polished. More about this in a few:


    In another photo, you can see how the leading edge MG cover area under the wing is highly reflective. If you look a little bit closer we can see how the middle D Day stripe was not painted White. Instead it was left as is. I believe this was done because they likely had a drop tank fitted on the wing when these stripes were applied. It would have been hard to paint this portion of the wing if this was true.

    The other plane in this picture "E2-S" is also painted in the same manner. It does not have it's center under wing stripe painted White either. You can also see something else is going on with the MG covers. Something in this photo looks to be painted Yellow by the wing mounted MG's.


    Here is another picture of "E2*S". You can see how the wing mounted MG cover looks to be very similar to what we are seeing on "LOU IV".

    Is it bare metal ? It kind of looks this way.

    I have another possible hypothesis here.

    It's possible this MG cover was replaced on "LOU IV" after the D Day Invasion Stripes were applied. At this time it was still natural unpainted metal. Then, as the D Day stripes were being painted over using what I believe was a Dark Blue color, the ground crew painted over the top side of the wing in an attempt to quickly cover the stripes. They also painted the top side of the MG cover at this time.

    However, if we look back at the picture where we can see how the D Day stripes were still slightly visible after being painted over. This was likely because a very thin coat of Dark Blue was applied.

    This would mean the top side of the MG cover was also thinly painted at this time.

    I can't prove this, and it makes perfect sense for the how and why questions too.

    It also seems to be logical. "Live long and prosper".