Franz Stigler and Charlie Brown; a story for the generations. For Bernie.

Started by david leigh-smith · 385 · 6 years ago · 1/48, diorama, Luftwaffe, USAF, WW2
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    David Mills said 6 years, 3 months ago:

    David, I think the issue of colour schemes is dependent on so many variables - all you can do is check the available references and go with something that looks about right - or if there are no decent references - often the case - make the best guess you can! Good Luck.
    Love the bleached out look some of those forts have , especially 'nine o nine' - great panel line shading too!

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    david leigh-smith said 6 years, 3 months ago:

    Made some more progress here; a few passes with a dilute mix of several shades of olive green and brown.

    As David (@davem) says, this project is all about taste and touch, depending on what you are looking for. I think I’ve managed to capture the weary and battle worn look I wanted. A few more weathering sessions and tomorrow I’m hoping to move on the underside and propellers.

    Also managed to get a first layer of varnish on the Fortress. The Vallejo Matt is great stuff, is come out of the airbrush very soothly and gets really good coverage. It also smells good.

    It’s been just great getting so much time to model recently and it’s really connected me with all the reasons I love this hobby. That said, there’s a lot of fumes in this den...

    50 shades of green.

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    Louis Gardner said 6 years, 3 months ago:

    Wonderful update David . I especially like the original era photos you posted of War time B-17's.

    You're pretty much right on the money with your "50 shades of green" statement. Here's a few pictures I took from inside the Collings Foundation B-17 painted as "Nine -0- Nine" which is one of the few air worthy 17's still flying.


    Here even with today's modern technology, and how far paint companies have improved their formulas, you can still see a difference between the greens on the cowling and wings. Also note the stainless steel "dog dish" located just behind the cowling louvers.

    During some of my research online, I stumbled across these color photos that were taken during the War for "LIFE" magazine. The OD Green on the P-40 looks as if it's starting to get just a little "Chalky" looking. When this happens, even something such as a person simply touching the surface will alter the appearance. The act of touching the chalky painted surface would remove the oxidized upper layer and reveal fresher paint below which has yet to be exposed to the elements. Some of this is slightly visible with the engine cowling on this particular P-40.

    You can see what I mean if you zoom in on the area just behind the exhaust, and the head of the man standing on the far right wearing the tan coveralls. See the darker green ? It smears over to the next panel...


    Check out how bad these P-38's look ! I'm fairly certain they were based in Alaska which also has a harsh environment.

    From my own personal experiences, (and I'm sure other Army vets can agree), even today there are various shades of OD Green in use. When we were doing routine maintenance on our tools that were supplied as part of the maintenance kit (called OVM) for our tanks, periodically we would paint some of these tools to protect them from rusting, in a black or an OD Green color, using a spray can instead of a brush.

    The Army had OD Green with the exact same NSN (National Stock Number) part number on the can's outer label. However when you sprayed the paint on the tools, sometimes you would get a more brownish shade, while other times it would be more of a green hue.

    The color would vary a little from can to can ! We called it "close enough" for Government Work...

    So what you are doing with your B-17 is spot on the money. Add in factors such as freshly painted touch up areas, older paint in service in different areas, and things such as spilled oil or AV Gas would definitely cause a change in colors. Even something such as exposure to UV lighting at higher altitudes would change the colors of the OD Green to various shades.

    I'm liking what I see here, and it's great to see you back at the bench doing what you love.

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    david leigh-smith said 6 years, 3 months ago:

    Thanks, Louis, those photos are just stunning and really show up all the nuances of the paint jobs. As ‘Ye Olde Pub’ was operating in England, flying high altitude sorties, in hostile environments, in the middle of winter, it’s safe to say the olive drab would have taken a hammering. I think when the decals are on and with some blending, she’ll look ok.

    This is my effort now, after a second coat of matt. The darnedest thing is I’ve now lost the cockpit canopy. Cannot find it anywhere. I know that Squadron do a vacuform version, but they want $50 to send a $6 package to London. Mmmm. An evening on google awaits.

    Really appreciate the photos, support and encouragement, Louis.

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    Peter Hausamann said 6 years, 3 months ago:

    The other thing abouy change in surface colour is sheen, especially on fabric. This occurs from oil leaks that get cleaned off by the groundcrew.

    David, are you going to go over the model with a fine dry brush to add small and slight lighter shades of irregularities? As can be seen by the photos Louis provided the scratches, dents, etc. I find that it is those subtle imperfections which often, even from a distance, make for a more realistic appearance.

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    david leigh-smith said 6 years, 3 months ago:

    Peter, my plan is to use the same techniques on the Fortress as I did on the Gustav. My intention is to try and reproduce the artistic style of the Higher Call painting by John Shaw.

    My B-17 is in a similar position in the photo below as in the painting above and I hope you can see what I’m going for. The Gustav was done with a bit more of an artistic rather than a technical style and I think the 109 is a reasonable match for the painting. So I’ll be definitely using the same ideas with the B-17, with pigments and oils to create texture and variance.

    Interestingly there is a lovely drawing of ‘Ye Olde Pub’ being escorted back onto the airfield in England by two P-47’s. Would also make a pretty great dio project. But not by me...

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    Peter Hausamann said 6 years, 3 months ago:

    Awesome, looking forward to seeing the progress. With your abition and great talent, it ought to look real special.
    Good to read that you are getting into the creative flow again.
    I am anticipating, anticipating, . . . I better make some more popcorn.

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    Louis Gardner said 6 years, 3 months ago:

    I'll take a bowl of that popcorn too ! 🙂

    David, I had a crazy idea when I saw the two P-47 fighter escorts...

    What if you altered the base, or even made a new one to incorporate two different scenes ?

    One base would be for Franz Stigler and "Ye Old Pub", while the second one would still incorporate "Ye Olde Pub" and the two T-bolts... You could call it "Little Friends". Nothing special has to be done with the Thunderbolts. Just build them up and place them on some clear rods... Presto !

    You could practice with some Olive Drab paint weathering on these two Thunderbolts and get some fantastic results like you have on the B-17. You could make one P-47 a well worn veteran, and the other plane could be almost factory fresh.

    That way if you ever wanted to change things up a bit, a simple swap of the B-17 plane could make it happen... Multi purpose modelling and "Ye Olde Pub" would still be the star. 🙂

    Meanwhile as "Ye Olde Pub" was flying with Franz, the P-47's flying by themselves would still work. It would just be two Thunderbolts returning home after a mission. You could even swap the Thunderbolts over from one side to the other on occasion to change things up from time to time.

    Just a thought. I know you can do it... and both settings would be conversation pieces for sure.

    This build has to be your best yet... The Big E was amazing, but I'm really liking this one.

    Like Peter stated, it's great to have you back at it in your new Man Cave...

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    Robert Royes said 6 years, 3 months ago:

    I'm kind of short on words, David. But wow! lookin good!

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    david leigh-smith said 6 years, 3 months ago:

    Louis, you are a genius. I have to say I’d never have thought of that idea, which works on so many levels. The base I’ve made is perfect for the set up you described and I’ve been wanting to build a Jug (or now two) for some time - just didn’t want to make a ‘generic’ T- bolt with no unique setting.

    The idea of having an interchangeable dio is intriguing, especially when the idea you had gives a happy ending to the whole episode. ‘Little friends’ indeed. Genius idea. Green lit, and definitely on the short list of builds to come. Well done, Louis,

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    david leigh-smith said 6 years, 3 months ago:

    Thanks, Robert. The size of the B-17 and the damage to it really does make an impact. I think I’m going to have to paint the insignias and markings rather than use decals (or at least use a mixture) due to damage, which may help the whole thing ‘pop’ a little more.

    Now, how you getting on with that ugly dame (BP)?

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    Robert Royes said 6 years, 3 months ago:

    Basically she's done. Just got to wait for the reveal date. It might have made a good dive bomber?

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    david leigh-smith said 6 years, 3 months ago:

    I think that’s probably the role the BPD (Borderline Personality Dirorder?) was made for, or possibly ground attack. I think was was essentially a little late to the party. I hate saying any plane is ugly - they are amazing feats of engineering, all of them, but the Defiant needs some momma’s love.

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    david leigh-smith said 6 years, 3 months ago:

    Ah, Louis, you’ve gone and done it. Can’t stop thinking about T-Bolts.

    Anyway, I started the markings and insignia.

    Looks good, and really sets off the damage. I’m going with a mixture of decals and masking/painting. The group marking on the tail and the walkways definitely look better sprayed.

    Also began the painstaking process of shading and blending, which on a bird this size is an exercise in patience and concentration.

    And then...DISASTER!

    A monumental spill of panel liner. It did clear up fine, though - no damage done other than time spent cleaning up. Here’s the work so far in natural light which shows more like what she really looks like.

    And one little close up. Can you tell I’m enjoying this?

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    Louis Gardner said 6 years, 3 months ago:

    Man oh Man !

    This is looking great David... I especially like the outdoors photo. It shows off the variations is the different shades of Green very well.

    You nailed the OD color scheme buddy. Too bad about the wash spill. A good way to look at it, is that your were very fortunate that it didn't affect the B-17. It could have been much worse... Thank God it wasn't.

    I'm glad you were very receptive to the idea with the P-47's. It's one of my favorite planes, and I plan on building up a few in the vey near future.

    I have a very personal connection with the plane. It's one of my very earliest memories where my Dad would let me actually sit in the cockpit of a bubble top one that was a static display outside the "Museum of Speed" in Daytona Beach. Here's a few pictures of the actual plane.

    Here it is being delivered at the Daytona Beach Airport.


    The welcoming committee from the Museum of Speed.

    and how it was displayed outside the museum for quite some time afterwards. I believe it was there for at least 10-12 years.

    I remember moving the joystick around a little. My Dad would show me how the ailerons moved when the stick was moved in the right direction.
    Sadly the plane and the museum are no longer there... This is how it looks now where the museum building stood and plane once was...

    Many years later I became friends with an elderly gentleman name Ed Malo. Here he is sitting in the cockpit of his plane that he shared with another pilot.


    He actually flew razor back P-47's from Martlesham Heath during the War.
    Here he is sitting on the wing of his P-47 along with the other pilot and the ground crew and the armorer. Ed is closest to the fuselage, while the other pilot named Airus Bergstrom is on the far right.

    Ed was a pilot with the 359th Fighter Squadron, 356th Fighter Group and flew from there between 22 May 1944 and 07 October 1944.

    He flew several missions on D-Day and many during the Falaise Gap shortly afterwards. One side of the plane was named "Carmen" while the other was "Phyllis". Ed married Phyllis and they remained together until Ed passed away in 2012.

    In this photo below, Bergstrom is standing next to the plane on the "Carmen" side... "Phyllis" was on the other side of the nose...


    I plan on building a model of his plane marked OC * P (bar). It had the last letter underlined with a bar to denote the second aircraft in the Squadron that was wearing the letter "P". I'm thinking about using the old Revell 1/32 model for this build.

    Here's another P-47 that I want to build as part of the "Nose Art" GB currently underway. I have everything lined up on this one ready to go and will be using the Tamiya 1/48 kit. But first I must finish up some Spitfires and Hurricanes for the 100 Years of the RAF ...

    I'm very happy to see that the P-47 seed that I planted will sprout and eventually grow into an fantastic addition to this wonderful diorama you have going here...

    Those walkway stripes you painted on, (and other markings) look much better than any decal ever could. It's neat little things like this, that sets your build apart from the others.