High ”tediosity factor” on my new model

Started by Ralph Clements · 89 · 9 years ago · float plane, HE-115B
  • Profile Photo
    Rob Pollock said 9 years, 5 months ago:

    Looking good, Ralph. Sometimes it's hard to separate the initial enthusiasm for a project from the underlying reality that you are about to spend 200 hours of your life on half a kilogram of painted plastic.

    At least you're still looking forward, so it can't be all bad...

  • Profile Photo
    Gregor d said 9 years, 5 months ago:

    Getting there Ralph and its looking good. Do you recon you would build another of these short run manufacturer's kits given the experience you had on this one? Sometimes I suppose it will depend on how badly you want to build the more "esoteric" subject I guess 🙂

  • Profile Photo
    Ralph Clements said 9 years, 5 months ago:

    Thanks all,

    Gregor, you know I really wanted to build a 1/48 HE-111 for the BOB/BOF group build thing but couldn't find one, This is as close as I could find to that and I guess I want taken by it's 'esotericness' if that is a word.

    Your question is a good one though. I may do another one, but if I do it will not be this large. My 'thinned and brushed on' painting technique seemed to work much better on the two smaller planes I did before this, a Zero and Stuka.

    The thing I am most bummed out about is all that glass in the front.I put those pieces on and I swear they were good and clear but later after the glue dried they were all clouded up. I don't know why, maybe I had fried chicken grease on my fingers when I did them. So earlier this week i made the command decision to try to fix it. I took the top front one off, being the easiest to remove andwashed in in dish detergent. It was still clouded. So I put a coat of Future on th inside and wow - it got clear again. So...being smart I thought, I took the front nose cone glass off with my little PE fret saw and using a small brush, put future on the inside of the nose glass windows, That was an improvement, all except the nose cone piece itself - which got worse, clouded up almost opaque white, only after I had reattached it, of course ad it stands out like a sore thumb.

    I don't know how people make the models I see here that are so...perfect. I just don't know. But it will be the best HE-115 on my shelf, that's for sure -

  • Profile Photo
    Gregor d said 9 years, 5 months ago:

    Transparent parts especially on a subject like this or the He 111 are difficult when applying adhesives. Some react badly and you get the clouded up effect. There are specific glues you can get for clear parts, and i usually apply these with a cocktail stick as they are usually quite thick. I use Humbrol clearfix but i'm sure there will be a readily available US product that should be available. Revell/monogram do/did the He 111 in 1/48 but i don't know if its still on their inventory. Get the He 115 finished Ralph and move on to your tank i'm finding armor subjects are more forgiving 🙂

  • Profile Photo
    Rob Pollock said 9 years, 5 months ago:

    Hi Ralph. Sorry to hear about your issues with glass. Did you first dip them in Future/Klear? This is useful for providing protective layer between clear part and any adhesives used. You'll find that with any strong adhesives it's not the glue itself that usually causes the issue, but the vapour rising from the glue, which is why the 'cloudy' effect is so pervasive rather than just a tiny bit in a corner. As Gregor says, there are several clear sealants on the market aimed at modellers, but any clear-drying acrylic liquid floor sealer will work ok too. If you've relied on a little toothpaste to polish the plastic you'll get the shine you want, but not the protective coat.

    By the way, Deluxe brand 'Glue 'n Glaze' is ideal for fixing clear parts to adjacent surfaces as it's chemically inert.

  • Profile Photo
    Rick Wilkes said 9 years, 5 months ago:

    Ralph, one last thing you might try to salvage your cloudy clear parts. Remove them as you did before, then let them soak in ammonia & give them a good scrub with a soft brush. That will remove any Future/Clear etc. Rinse and let dry. If the part is still cloudy, repeat the ammonia bath. If it is still cloudy, you'll have to polish out the cloudy area as best you can, then apply Future again to see it that permanently restores the clarity. If that doesn't work it's probably best to get replacement parts from SH or make your own new parts by Vacuforming or plunge molding the part. When you reinstall the parts, follow the advice Gregor and Rob gave you and you shouldn't have any more issues with clouding.

    Hope this helps,

    Rick

  • Profile Photo
    AL HOFFMAN said 9 years, 5 months ago:

    Ralph, I've had good luck using a product called "Gator Glue" This is a very strong water based white glue. I'll tape the glass in place, thin the glue with water, then apply it by letting it flow into the seams. It will shrink as it dries clear. Ship modelers sometimes use it for PE railings because it will take a contact shock & not come loose.

    I suspect you used CA & the vapor etched your glass as it dried. If this is the case the clear pieces will probably need polishing. Same principle used to lift fingerprints with CA.

  • Profile Photo
    Ralph Clements said 9 years, 5 months ago:

    OK thanks so much fellows - Yes it was CA glue andvyes I am very careful to only get it on the edge of the parts, Like I said I could have sworn they were clear when I put them on - they clouded later, on the inside, so I think Rob's vapor diagnosis is the culprit and since this model is not perfect by any means anyway, and the nose is so out front, I am willing to saw the front off again(!) and use ammonia as Rick says, since I think whats happened after I fixed the problem is the future just puddled up in there badly (I hope)
    I have used Elmers Glue for canopies before, it is clear, but doesn't seem to hold tight. I have used CA before too, without this problem, although I was unable to get my usual kind - "Locktite Gel Control" recently and got instead "Locktite Ultra Gel Control". Maybe that it is the cause.

    Al: pardon my ignorance, what is the "principle used to lift fingerprints with CA."?

    As usual when I get a new kit, I look through the box and instructions - I did that with the tank and noticed - no glass...also since spray painting is practically impossible in the winter here due to winds and temperatures, a tank seems better suited for brush painting.

  • Profile Photo
    AL HOFFMAN said 9 years, 5 months ago:

    Ralph, the object in question is put in a sealed box, CA fumes pumped in & if there is skin oil on the object the fumes attach to the oil ridges & reveal a print.
    CA will etch plastic especially if an accelerator is used. The Gator Glue I mentioned is very tough when it sets. It never really hardens & will stay pliant. It will release the joint when water is put on it again. I use it a lot when test fitting parts. It does take a few hours to partially cure.

  • Profile Photo
    Ralph Clements said 9 years, 5 months ago:

    Al, I had confused Gator Glue with Gorilla Glue...maybe I can invent "Goat Glue"...

    Rick's tip on using ammonia to de-etch worked very well. It is not perfect but is much better.

    THANKS RICK - it was nerve racking sawing the nose off again, but worth it.

    Here are some pics
    1.after second nose amputation
    2.nosecone and top piece after ammonia treatment and new Future

    1. Last color application, the winter white

    Getting that painting done makes me feel better about this as does the redone glass. I used q-tips to swap the many windows in the nose with alcohol. They were not as badly fogged but look better now too.

    I am letting all that ammonia and Future (and water - I ran water inside the nose to rinse) dry out overnight before putting the two glass pieces back on...with, I think, Elmer's this time!

    3 attached images. Click to enlarge.

  • Profile Photo
    Rick Wilkes said 9 years, 5 months ago:

    Nicely done Ralph. I'm glad my suggestion was helpful.

  • Profile Photo
    Rob Pollock said 9 years, 5 months ago:

    Yes the ammonia is handy to keep to hand in the garage. I bought some three years ago but have only used it once: I dipped a canopy in Klear and set it aside only to notice later that the liquid had pooled and I hadn't seen it in time, hence the ammonia dip. Worked fine, so useful not just for glue issues.

    If you get fed up with the canopy, Ralph, you could always stage a crash diorama with the plane on a beach...

  • Profile Photo
    Ralph Clements said 9 years, 5 months ago:

    Well Rob, I don't do dioramas -planes are hard enough, but a similar thought had crossed my mind...that, you know, a cannon shell could have exploded the nose on one of these.

  • Profile Photo
    Rob Pollock said 9 years, 5 months ago:

    Now you're talking... Think laterally - every challenge is an opportunity.