The first thing you notice when you look at the Tamiya P-38 model, is the box art. I think that Tamiya has done a good job replicating the color of Glacier Girl on the box top art work, when you compare it to the "restored" Glacier Girl. It appears to be more of a green OD Green color than a Brown OD Green.

I'll definitely know a lot more about this subject once the books arrive. My thoughts are based on what I have posted before, and are subject to change with verified proof.

Meanwhile look at these next pictures... and notice how the color changes according to the lighting. I also believe the outer wing skin is still unpainted in this picture. Here it is still in Yellow Zinc Chromate if I'm not mistaken.

These pictures show it as a Green based OD Green. I believe this was a specific US Army color, and not a RAF "Equivalent" .

Note the propeller rotation directions. The propellers turned in opposite directions to counter act the torque. This along with tri cycle landing gear was cutting edge for Lockheed at the time. The only other production US Army plane using this landing gear arrangement (that quickly comes to mind), was the P-39. It too had a lot of unique ideas for the time.


Also notice how the color changes from a slightly brown shade at the top left corner, to more of a Green in the bottom right side of this next picture. This is a prime example of how lighting can affect how a color is interpreted.

All of these pictures were taken as cell phone snaps from the video link that Stephen provided for us. No tricks or editing was done to enhance or change the colors. What you see is what I saw.

This is undoubtedly a beautiful plane.

Calling it a night,
As usual,
Comments are encouraged.

Thanks for stopping by.

Hello James ! @jamesb

I was hoping that you would respond to this. I wanted your thoughts on the subject. Since you and I both have been around many full sized "Warbirds", we have seen exactly what I'm trying to describe above in the various colors that were used.

You are spot on the money with your assessment about ZC being painted over. I am certain that the US Army (and Navy) had specifications that required the crew compartments to be painted in specific colors. I remember reading about Bronze Green, Interior Green, and Dull Dark Green as some of the colors that were specified. This is a stark change from what was required from only a few years earlier when cockpits were painted in an "Aluminum" color from the factory. Apparently besides the fact that you don't want something shiny in a combat zone, the crews were making complaints about safety hazards that were caused by glare from the shiny aluminum surfaces inside the cockpits.

So something had to be done...

To my knowledge, Zinc Chromate was used as a corrosion inhibitor and as a means to keep various types of metals from having an interaction between them. Unfortunately ZC doesn't seal a surface as good as a regular top coat color does. This is also part of the reason why they specified the interior crew compartments get painted to act as an additional protection.

Please keep in mind that these planes were not expected to survive for 70 years after they were built. A safe bet would be that an airframe with over 10,000 hours was unheard of at this time. These planes were considered "expendable".

Most people don't realize this, but placing two dissimilar metals next to each other causes a very small electrical voltage. It's how batteries are made too... This voltage can cause corrosion which is not what you need on a wing spar, or anywhere in an aircraft's structure.

This is part of the reason why Zinc Chromate was made. It sticks to aluminum. Some primers will not and simply peel off after it dries. It has been referred to as the "Galvanized coating" for aluminum because of it's properties, even though it's not galvanizing...

Here is some information that our very own Martin posted some years ago when he was doing research on the subject. A lot of information has been written and is published over at this website. It's called IPMS Stockholm and it has a wealth of information posted there. It's definitely worth looking at if you have any curiosity on the subject.

Interior Colours of US Aircraft, 1941-45, Part I

Granted this is a subject that the information changes as more research is done, and more documentation is revealed. Here's what Martin had to say about the P-38 cockpit colors back then. This is specific to the earlier planes. This next caption is what Martin wrote about the Zinc Chromate color itself... Then he talks about another color that I didn't realize existed until about 10 years ago. It's called "Bronze Green". Various cockpit green colors are explained... as is Dull Dark Green. Here I cropped it down a little so it's a bit easier to read. This is about the various "cockpit green" colors. I wish I knew about this stuff 20 years ago... Prior to that everything I built had "Interior Green" as a cockpit color. But I suspect I'm not the only one... Speaking of Interior Green... here it is. Now I can't wait to see what Dana Bell has written about the subject, and I'm more than anxious to see the color pictures of Glacier Girl as it was removed from under the ice. I'm hoping that you continue to follow along with me on this journey, as I'm sure I will have more questions to ask you about this subject. Your knowledge about colors, lighting and photography will come in very handy as we go down this road. Thanks again and I am glad that you decided to order the book too. I think it will be "enlightening" for both of us. I can't wait. But I have too. As always, Comments are encouraged.

Louis @lgardner, Great reference material. I actually was able to find all 3 articles and download them to PDF files for my library. Thanks!

To share with others, here is the link to the first article, from there you can get to Part II and Part III
http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2004/01/stuff_eng_interior_colours_us.htm

Here’s a thing that I just “discovered”.

I always thought that the A6M-3 Zero had the shorter clipped wing tips. Wrong answer !

The older Tamiya Zero kit I had intended to build with this group is an A6M-3 model 32. They have square wing tips. Little did I know that there was another version.

Enter the A6M-3 Model 22.

This plane was on the drawing board before the square tipped plane but it was developed after the Model 32.

This is an excellent example of how the numbers don’t always follow a consecutive order. The 32 reached front line units and was in service months before the model 22 did.

Here’s the kicker. The newer model 22 version went back to the original rounded wingtips that were on the earlier Zero.

So in essence the Tamiya kit might not be the correct model Zero I need to properly depict the plane that would have been escorting the Admiral Yamamoto G4M.

The A6M-3 had a difference in the engine cowling and the side cooling flaps when compared to the earlier A6M-2. So it’s a very noticeable change if you have the two sitting next to each other.

Meanwhile I went back to EBay and just happened to find a pair of these Hasegawa kits that were reduced in price and they were for sale by the same person. To make things better, it was being sold by a person that I had bought stuff from in the past, and they’re only about 60 miles away !

So I took this as a sign and clicked the “buy it now” button. Here’s what should be arriving soon.

This kit is sealed like new still in the shrink wrap.

The other plane had an open box with sealed / complete parts bags.

Do I need another Zero ? No probably not. Do I want another Zero ? Absolutely !

Now I’m going to be doing some more research and try to determine what sub type model A6M-3 was being flown as part of the fighter escort on the two Betty bombers.

I have always wanted to build a Zero painted like the one that was photographed in flight near Rabaul. It just happened to be flown by the Ace Hiroyoshi Nishizawa... So you can bet that one of the latest purchased Zero’s is going to be painted like his plane shown below.

If anyone out there can shed some light on this subject please do not hesitate.

As always,
Comments are encouraged.

Thanks again for stopping by.

Louis, I know police departments when doing investigations ...say when a hit and run leaves paint marks on another vehicle... can take samples of that paint and can come up with paint compositions that can be matched with manufactures colors. I wonder if the paint compositions of a WWII fighter could be attributed to a manufacture? Dupont was the go to color for some a/c manufactures and I wonder that if such a test could match paints manufacture in 40's provided a sample could could be provided. The cost might be prohibitive. But, the composition when match say with a British sample might also shed light. I 've watch too much CSI episodes ...

Thanks gentlemen for the wonderful comments. I sincerely appreciate each and every one.

Stephen I remember reading something about a similar thought on accurately reproducing vintage paints using the existing formulas. From what I remember it was no longer possible. Apparently several of the components that are needed for the formulas are no longer available, or the formulas themselves have been lost to time. They have been banned from manufacturing because of various health and environmental risks that they presented. I believe it was the binders that caused the problems.

But how cool would that be ? Take the exact formulas and recreate the colors to the letter.

Louis I knew that book would be of value, glad to see you obtained it at a really good price. I followed the Glacier Girl reconstruction for over 10 years. Made several trips to Middleboro, Ky to see her under restoration to also see her fly on two occasions at their little air show. She is a beauty and I was sorry to see go sold and flown off to Texas. However, there's more under that ice in case one wants to retrieve them. Good luck on this project and I'll be watching.